Mate took his bike into the LBS in the last couple of days, cos the bearings in the front, bolt-through (maxle, I think) wheel are obviously shot; rattley wheel, couple of mm movement at the rim.

They’re telling him that the wheel is a right-off, as is the rear one, and would sir like to pick some new wheels? The rear is an XT cup and cone, which, although they haven’t been lavishly serviced in the five years he’s had them, I thought were basically impossible to break.

The bike’s a 26″ 120mm hardtail, mainly used for general XC type bridleway bashing in the Cotswolds, with very occasional trips to the Peaks/Brecons/trail centres. It has not had a hard life.

I’m pretty sceptical about what he’s been told, I’m surprised that a bearing change on the front and a general service on the back (possibly with new bearings) isn’t all it needs.

Whaddyareckon?

i like cup-and-cone hubs, but if you don’t keep on top of them, the surfaces will ‘pit’, and then they’re knackered.

(the internet says that the bearing surfaces can be replaced, using spares from a donor hub, but i’ve never been able to remove the left-hand ‘cup’)

It may be that the bearing surface is damaged – pitted or scored.

If he has not looked after them, then it could well be borked. Nothing is unbreakable, and frankly 5 years without being looked at….

Why don’t you get the wheels back and do a service for him? Then you will see if they are fine to carry on or do indeed need replacing.

It possibly depends on your definition of knackered as well. It can be amazing how long a hub will limp along for despite pitted surfaces if you pack the things with grease.

Can’t really expect a bike shop to recommend bodging it though.

Crazy to suggest it but… Has he asked the shop to explain why it needs replaced?
Most shops are not out to rip you off!
I suspect hub service required but wheel out of true and nipples corroded/seized. Rear hub bearing running surface pitted.

Easier for shop and cheaper for customer to get new wheels.

Either that or it’s the Al Capone of bike shops and they are robbing your mate blind.

Without seeing the wheels its impossible to say if they’d be economical to repair. Regarding the rear wheel if the races in the hub are shot no amount of new ball bearings would fix it. If your mates concerned tell him to try another shop and see what they say.

If they’ve been ridden in this condition for a while they will be damaged, so the shop is probably correct. As they’re CnC hubs, you could either do as was said above and service them and pack with grease and run them more but they will be a bit rough. It is technically possible to replace the cups and cones, but you need to buy a donor hub and it is getting into bodge territory and is probably not economic if it’s an old wheel anyway.

What model of XT hubs is it?

SJS cycles sell virtually every Shimano hub spare.

If its a maxle hub that borked then you nned to replace the axle as the left cone is bonded to the axles as a single unit.

The replacement axle kit will come with both cones though

It possibly depends on your definition of knackered as well. It can be amazing how long a hub will limp along for despite pitted surfaces if you pack the things with grease

Yup, if you’re happy to live with things that are a little bit rumbly, rattly or clicky, you can get another 2-5 times the amount of life out of them.

The shop probably has very high workshop standards which may overlook the true MTB way of bodgering.

If they “fixed” it, it may be glitchy upon pickup risking an unhappy customer, or it could fail in use later, risking their benchmark standard being dragged through the dirt. Easier for them on all fronts to declare them shagged (5 years of no TLC & they might well be) and offer a nice shiny pair which ultimately they know you really want, cos shiny is nice.

Some interesting info, ta. I didn’t realise Maxles were CnC

The front wheel I could probably accept may be knackered, but the rear surprises me; it’s a bit graunchy at worst and I thought it was basically recieved wisdom that only the most knackered CnC hubs couldn’t be revitalised with new balls (phnaar) and a good pack of grease.

I guess this is the issue with ‘chain’ LBS’s, they’re a bit like servicing at car dealerships, they only tend to offer the perfect, which is usually the most expensive, solution. A ‘local’ LBS is more likely to offer something more pragmatic.

A kit like this would sort out the front hub, no need for a new wheel.

The cups on shimano hubs can be replaced BUT the parts aren’t available and so as mentioned a donor hub is necessary. If you’re at the point where the cups are shot and you’re considering changing them then everything else will be borked too so the most cost effective way to get the parts is with a donor hub.
What you then have to take into account is the labour that a shop (should they be willing to carry out the bodge) would have to charge you to make it worth their while in workshop time. Once you’ve added the labour and parts time together a new (equivilant) wheel is often not much more and comes with new everything. so why bother?
Ive done it for customers before but it does take a while and there is plenty of scope for it not going quite according to plan which just ends up costing more (which i/the shop would often have to absorb) so its not worth the hassle.
Obviously, if you’re not too precious then you could just get new cones and bearings, pack it with a shit load of grease and reassemble. The bearings probably won’t last very long and neither will the new cones but if your not bothered then go for gold.

The cups are usually pressed into the hub body in the factory and aren’t readily replaceable, however – they’re usually built from harder stuff than the cones so when you start to see & feel movement it’s usually the cones and/or bearings that are going.

There’s always the chance that given enough neglect the cups will be forked too & if the freehub mechanism is knackered on the rear it mightn’t be worth throwing time & money at either of them.

I’d check exactly what is wrong before throwing cash at new wheels… you often see really cheap wheels on ebay that need about £20 worth of parts & an hour of effort to put right and I always wonder if it’s someone been sold a new set of wheels when the old ones could be fixed fairly easily given the right knowledge.

j

Unless the customer is a “good regular”, then the advice is probably sensible from the LBS. Otherwise, 3 months down the line with a set of rattly wheels your mate will be knocking at the door (or, from my dim and distant experience of working in an LBS, getting his mum to phone).

Not worth the potential hassle for them. I would probably take it apart and see what the cups are looking like, and order a replacement axle if the cups look OK if it was my bike, as long as the nipples aren’t seized etc.

Something that I’m planning on trying next time I come across some knackered cup and cone hubs is to clean them out, pack them with grinding paste, ride them for ten minutes, clean them out, repack them with fresh grease and new bearings, and then see how long they last. What’ve you got to lose?

3 months down the line with a set of rattly wheels your mate will be knocking at the door (or, from my dim and distant experience of working in an LBS, getting his mum to phone)

This x100.I have polished out cups with dremel/cutting paste,replaced cones,replaced bearings.Then explained to the customer that this is not a long term permanent fix but will give them time to source/save for a new wheel (and under charged given the time it’s taken) and will deteriorate over time.
Cue 9 months later irate phone call from said customer complaining about substandard work 🙁 (which they claim was ‘done last week and ‘has’nt been ridden since).
9 times out of 10,if you can feel they roughness to any large degree then they are hosed.
Bw

What’ve you got to lose?

As a punter….10 minutes of your life? As a business taking money from someone.A reputation and the business of a customer in the future.

you often see really cheap wheels on ebay that need about £20 worth of parts & an hour of effort to put right

Ones like the OP’s mate’s? Buying damaged parts unseen is well risky!

if we’ve learnt anything in the last couple of weeks, theres always the bike shops version of events,

tag the shop, the owner might appear 😆

As a punter….10 minutes of your life? As a business taking money from someone.A reputation and the business of a customer in the future.

Not saying anyone else should do it, and definitely not a shop, but it’s something I’m thinking of trying myself. I guess it mainly depends on whether you wear through the hardened layer or not that will determine how long it will last as a quick fix.

If hubs are knackerd (which at 5 yrs they can be) then almost as cheap to buy complete factory wheels when you factor in rebuild costs etc.

well I own a LBS and just told a friend the exact same thing.
XT wheels, hubs rumbling along, alloy nipples seized, the main thing is the gradual deformation of the cups in the hub.

Once these start to go then the hub is a write off.
Then a new wheelset is cheaper and better, ideally a Hope set which is easier to maintain.

change the thread title to ‘lack of maintenance and its consequences’

Basically +1 for everyone else. One person’s knackered is another’s “just a bit rumbly” but unless the wheels were completely ****ed when they went into the shop I’d personally bet money more life can be had from them. And no safety issue there.

I’ve changed cups in an older shimano hub… Fairly straightforward but it needs an awful lot of force, it’s something you do once all the bits are written off so there’s no risk of loss.

i’ll admit that i’m poor at maintaining my bike. Don’t really keep on top of it as when I finish a ride i’m too knackered to fix myself let alone a bike. Which is why I avoid Shimano hubs as a rule.

If I was on top of the servicing, they’d be fine. My old DX hubs are still running great, however once the surface of the bearing gets worn, I have the chuck hub spokes and rim into the bin.

Have the front fixed soon, save pennies and buy a new wheel with a Hope rear hub. Never visit a bike shop again.

Anyway, a little thread revivaling update.

Took the wheels to my LBS in Ciren, explained situation (that another had shop had said they were fubarred and needed to be replaced), and asked for second opinion.

Long story short, new bearings in the front hub, tweak and grease of the rear and £20 labour later they are, in his opinion, good for another few years yet.