So you really think Osbourne is there on merit not because he knew Cameron from uni? Get real
🙄

This is how it works – these people rely upon their friends and only live work and appoint from “one of us”

its a very clear and well known phenomenon occuring all over society – hence unrepresentation of women in the boardroom and in senior posts, hence teh oxbridge elite in politics

Its a complete mistake to attribute that to better education – its all down to the contacts you make at school and uni. You do not get as better education at feepaying school. Going to one does not make you cleverer. it just gives yo useful contacts.

This does not happen in more egalitarian societies where these bastions of privilege do not exist.

a_a – you dont appear to have made any point with that post.

As I said: how an education is paid for is irrelevant to the existence or not of an old boys network.

various stats on state/public school exam results is nothing to do with the argument.

So you really think Osbourne is there on merit not because he knew Cameron from uni?

No.

So, what’s your point about my original post again? Because I think you appear a little lost.

Stop digging, TJ.

You do not get as (sic) better education at feepaying (sic) school.

Now THAT is funny! 🙂

You really are ridiculous Stoner – envy? What says I am envious of these guys?

Just for your information I had the opportunity to go to public school and the academic achievements to go to Cambridge. I didn’t want to. I am content with my life.

ernie_lynch – Member

“The “old boys network” these days is no more than a construct of envy. A fabricated excuse.”

‘Tis you who is deluding themselves Stoner……….if you do indeed believe that. Politics, and the dark and mighty art of political lobbying, has everything to do with contacts – including the contacts forged at Eton

erm, did you watch the programme linked to at the start of this thread… numerous ex MP’s talked of how they got to where they wanted to be due to the old boys network. I expect the current crop will too, in time, they cant now of course.

(5) Steven Hilton, the director of strategy for Cameron and godfather of Cameron’s children

But who’s shoulder is he resting his arm on ? (second pic btw) ………they’ve been airbrushed out !!!

Stoner – Member

“So you really think Osbourne is there on merit not because he knew Cameron from uni?

No.”

So, what’s your point about my original post again? Because I think you appear a little lost.

So you agree he is where he is ‘cos he knew Cameron from Uni ie old boys network in action. Good.

As I said: how an education is paid for is irrelevant to the existence or not of an old boys network.

surely the Old Boys network is directly related to the fee paying school you went too or have I missed something? Isnt theat what the words mean?

Networking is pretty much everything. Look at the Labour party head honchos. They all fit the same mould. Right uni, right course, right start in the political machine etc. Networking is crucial in business too. Your personal contacts are vital to success.

networking isnt an Old Boys network though is it?

The “old boys network” these days is no more than a construct of envy. A fabricated excuse.

That’s quite a defence there stoner, all that came out when I don’t seem to remember criticizing the “posh” universities, or all the graduates. I was actually putting the point across that it wasn’t where they went to get educated that mattered, it’s what they did when they got there and beyond.

You called it a load of “hooey”, but then admit it does happen citing Cameron/Osborne. Considering that everyone “networks”, do you not think that the future politicians and future business leaders who sat the political and economics courses did not network with each other?

Networking is pretty much everything. Look at the Labour party head honchos. They all fit the same mould. Right uni, right course, right start in the political machine etc. Networking is crucial in business too. Your personal contacts are vital to success.

I’m agreeing with 5th elefant( 😯 ).

hence teh oxbridge elite in politics

deleted incredibly witty but slightly offensive remark.

TJ. Yes I agree.

But its not because he WENT to oxford or cambridge.

I said in my OP, relationships are always there. political links and families. Im not naive, I think you and Ernie have jumped a bit to quickly.

What I said was that success by an oxbridge graduate is NOT primarily down to an Old Boy Network.

Your personal contacts are vital to success.

Is that why those exclusive sites like Facebook and Linkedin are so successful?
The Old Boy network exists, Daddy is MD in company X and will either provide a job for sonny’s friend or the opportunity to get the job.
It happens in secondary schools too.
You can choose to spend your money on your childrens’ education.
You can take advantage of one of the scholarships which are available, if you have the ability.
There are opportunities everywhere to better yourself.
If you choose not to yourself, don’t ctiticize those who do.

Sroner – so Osbournes is there because he knew Cameron at Uni but

But its not because he WENT to oxford or cambridge.

😯 🙄 😀

Want to borrow a shovel?

TJ – for someone who apparently “had the academic achievements to go to Cambridge” you’re displaying more the intellectual level of someone who could have gone to Oxford. 🙄

There are opportunities everywhere to better yourself.
If you choose not to yourself, don’t ctiticize those who do.

not sure anyone is really just pointing out that those opportunities you speak of are vastly more open to those at the top of the economic scale than those at the bottom.

hey Stoner can you answer the question I posed?

surely the Old Boys network is directly related to the fee paying school you went too or have I missed something? Isnt theat what the words mean?

The Old Boy network exists, Daddy is MD in company X and will either provide a job for sonny’s friend or the opportunity to get the job

I sincerely doubt that’s anything like as prevalent as the Guardian would have you believe. certainly no more likely than a shop steward getting his pals son on the shift is it?

a_a which one?

edit: that one. hang on

you said:

how an education is paid for is irrelevant to the existence or not of an old boys network.

I said:

surely the Old Boys network is directly related to the fee paying school you went too or have I missed something? Isnt theat what the words mean?

I sincerely doubt that’s anything like as prevalent as the Guardian would have you believe. certainly no more likely than a shop steward getting his pals son on the shift is it?

Mostly based on first hand experience as I don’t read the Guardian.

a_a: yes Old Boys Network comes from old school relationships. And it’s so out of date it’s laughable.

To try and use it seriously in an argument is akin to using the word “toff”. A nostalgic construction used lazily without really thinking whether it’s even remotely relevant or contemporary. Trying desperately to emotionalise something far more mundane.

In real life, most “old boys” couldnt give a monkeys about their alma mater or others that come from it. Thats not the same as using friendships that have endured from school – afterall would you not help an old school friend out, whether you went to Eton or Scum Comp?

The “Old boy network” implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up from an unknown, older alumni, regardless of your personal relationship with them. I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

right OK, it doesnt exist because you said it doesnt despite all the evidence to the contrary, I’ll ask again have you watched the programme linked to at the top of the thread?

I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

Clearly you are the arbiter of fact. If it hasnt happend to you it doesnt happen!!

If there was a national boarding grammer school where only the brightest students from the state system could apply and was manned by the best teachers and was run by an inspirational head,with ties into industry, commerce and politics(at a high level).

Would the exstudents have a chance ?

Should be in with a chance getting to the top uni’s
but how would they fair from afterwards

Stoner – still digging? Cameron and Osbourne are an obvious example that you admit is true of the “old boys network” in action.

Its real. it happens today.

then where’s your corollary?

Who’s had a leg up at your work from an old school contact?

TJ – define “Old Boy Network” for me.

The “Old boy network” implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up. I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

A regular question on introductions was an enquiry to which school you went to, from that point on the future of the relationship is determined.
Friends got jobs for and from friends’ families.

It isn’t as base as flashing the tie, it’s networking but you are deluded if you say it doesn’t exist.

Who’s had a leg up at your work from an old school contact?

Dont know I aint in any Old Boys network, I didnt go to a fee paying school, which is what the word means.

Not sure North Bromsgrove High Old Boys exists, it would have girls in if it fdid though so that may just discount it.

Oxford dictionary:

an informal system through which men are thought to use their positions of influence to help others who went to the same school or university as they did , or who share a similar social background.

wiki:

An old boy network, or society, can refer to social and business connections among former pupils of male-only private schools.

don “A regular question on introductions”

job interviews?

Be daft if they didnt ask which school you went to.

What do you think the odds are of coming across someone interviewing you from your old school by chance?

Dont know I aint in any Old Boys network

So in spite of having no experience of it, you think it’s rife?

networking isnt an Old Boys network though is it?

Isn’t it? Don’t see why not, it’s just that the network forms rather earlier than others.

men are thought to

OED not known for being flippant with their use of words.

job interviews?

No, social. Most people were known by name and school. I’m not saying it’s wrong, I’m saying it exists.

So even in the definitions there’s no claim of widespread nepotism.

The vernacular implies nothing more than the kind of networking relationships cultivated at any comprehensive school, red brick university, shop floor, sunday league football club, church congregation, masonic lodge or sewing circle.

I’m saying it exists

spain or UK?

UK? who on earth asks which school you went to in social conversations?