Politics & the EU - Should Britain leave or stay? And why?

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Politics & the EU - Should Britain leave or stay? And why?

51 posts & 23 voices | Started 3 years ago by jontawn | Latest reply from G

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trailmonkey - Member

One of the think I have failed to understand during my 4 years in UK is why brits seems to be so close to the US and not to the country that are around the corner...

EDIT actually in my last sentence, read english rather than brits

Maybe they get a little distanced when people from those countries round the corner are constantly denegrating the place with sweeping generalisations about its bad food, bad riding, bad politics ( see a pattern developing ?), beliefs that conform to stereotyping of the worst possible kind.

FWIW, I am English and very pro EU.

Posted 3 years ago #
juan - Member

Trailmonkey my edit was jut because at the end off the day I don't really know any brits that's not english...
Sounds like someone is a bit touchy here...

Posted 3 years ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Instead of legislations being made locally, or at least nationally, around 80% of them are decided in Brussels by some bureaucrats

Yes by people you chose to vote (or not) for

But thats simply not true is it - they're voted on by a small number of people that you as a nation voted for and a whole bunch of other people that have nothing to do with you - how on earth can a majority legislature apply rules that suit the desires, needs, concerns and diverse circumstances of local communities across an entire continent?

The biggest concern of the British people is probably the reluctance of the European movement to accept democracy - as seen with the referenda on the EU constitution. The EU is fundamentally NOT a democratic organisation.

Posted 3 years ago #
surfer - Member

One of the think I have failed to understand during my 4 years in UK is why brits seems to be so close to the US and not to the country that are around the corner...

Shared language.

Posted 3 years ago #
mogrim - Member

But thats simply not true is it - they're voted on by a small number of people that you as a nation voted for and a whole bunch of other people that have nothing to do with you - how on earth can a majority legislature apply rules that suit the desires, needs, concerns and diverse circumstances of local communities across an entire continent?

It can't, but then the same argument can be used for any political body, right down to council level. The same Westminster government decides on laws applicable to Northumberland and Cornwall, London and Caerphilly... EU level decision making is ideal for a great many things, for example those relating to H&S, standards, free markets.

I'd like a fully federal EU, with clearly delimited authority, not the squabbling mess we have at the moment.

Posted 3 years ago #
G - Member

The bottom line with the EU was that it was set up to foster economic interdependancy so that we stopped fighting each other. In that it has been singularly successful.

My take on it is that if I have to pay a wee bit more in tax or whatever and it stops my son dying in a soggy trench then thats great with me.

Being inmy 50's I can remember how things were pre EU and there is no way whatsoever that we were better off then, than we are now. The reality is that we're in it for better or worse and pulling out isn't really a viable option. So lets just get on with it and work at making it better.

Regarding UKIP: A group of insular xenaphobic twunts IMHO. They have no realistic policies, no positive message and they almost had that dayglo orange twunt as a leader. Says all I need to know about it frankly.

Posted 3 years ago #
joemarshall - Member

the NHS is formatted to treat things rather then prevent them

Huh, what about preventative medicine?

In many ways the NHS sucks, but compared to other health systems it is incredibly efficient. Particularly compared to systems involving private medical insurers (the US system that he loves so much costs roughly twice as much, and gets much worse outcomes, in addition to not covering a large percentage of the population at all).

Joe

Posted 3 years ago #
konabunny - Member

sweeping generalisations about its bad food, bad riding, bad politics ( see a pattern developing ?), beliefs that conform to stereotyping of the worst possible kind.

Really? Someone said British food is rubbish and that's stereotyping of the worst possible kind? Like, Der Stürmer bad?

Posted 3 years ago #
mogrim - Member

Maybe they get a little distanced when people from those countries round the corner are constantly denegrating the place with sweeping generalisations about its bad food, bad riding, bad politics ( see a pattern developing ?), beliefs that conform to stereotyping of the worst possible kind

Our US cousins do it about us, too - we're all stuck up, posh voices, bad teeth... Most (maybe all?) countries have popular stereotypes about other countries, GB gives as good as it gets on this front.

I'd say the main reason the UK and the US get along so well are two world wars, cemented by a massive two-way cultural exchange (possible thanks to the common(ish) language)after WWII.

Posted 3 years ago #
trailmonkey - Member

Really? Someone said British food is rubbish and that's stereotyping of the worst possible kind? Like, Der Stürmer bad?

Yeah, today dissing toad in the hole, tomorrow Kristalnacht.

OK, maybe not that bad but it's all finding excuses to dislike people.

Posted 3 years ago #
JxL - Member

Mogrim - just because the country is in a mess right now, it does not mean it needs to be completely governed by EU. There are some very successful countries outside the EU who are doing better than those within it.

Posted 3 years ago #
jimmer himself - Member

My take on the EU is that it is far from perfect, but we need to make a proper decision about it sooner or later. We've been America's whipping boy for far too long and EU members are a little bemused by us because we've skirted around the issue of full membership for so long.

The fact is, that if you look back at history, being a member of a bigger group generally improves prosperity. If it didn't we'd all still be living in caves waving our clubs in anger at the enemy that live in the cave around the corner.

The UK has a very culturally diverse population compared to a lot of other EU nations and aside from a new currency would we really notice any real negative consequences of full membership?

Having spent about eight years living in Europe on and off I can only see benefits. With regards to political interference from the EU, I think it's been massively exaggerated, if it were that bad the French would have walked out years ago;-)

Posted 3 years ago #
mogrim - Member

Mogrim - just because the country is in a mess right now, it does not mean it needs to be completely governed by EU.

Of course not, and I never said it should be. I want a federal EU government.

Posted 3 years ago #
G - Member

I'm with mogrim, I like the federal idea. Why not come up with our version of the American political model? Several things I would change, but in essence two tier government with the state level retaining a considerable wedge of legislative freedom. Makes total sense to me. Failure to do that will actually lead to more centralised bureacracy not less.

Posted 3 years ago #
grizzlygus - Member

Zulu-Eleven - Member
No Gus,

I don't expect you to read the document (The Plan: twelve months to renew Britain) you're trying to criticise

LOL ! A classic bit of 'rattism' there mate, ie : pretending that I said/did something which I didn't say/do

No ratty, I didn't 'try to criticise' any document written by the right-wing freak Dan Hannan. As I stated in my post immediately before yours, my criticism was on what he said to an American TV audience, ie : that the British National Health Service had been a failure since it was first founded, that it made people 'iller', and that US health care provisions were in fact much better.

These are clearly monstrous lies, and I don't know whether Hannan's ability to tell them with such ease in front of large TV audiences represents some sort of 'mental illness', but the fact that he has accused Gordon Brown of having 'pathological' tendencies isn't lost on me.

BTW ratty, thanks for not disappointing me and coming so swiftly to the right-wing retard's defence ! And why am I not surprised that you've read the book which he co-authored !

Posted 3 years ago #
konabunny - Member

I'm with mogrim, I like the federal idea. Why not come up with our version of the American political model? Several things I would change, but in essence two tier government with the state level retaining a considerable wedge of legislative freedom. Makes total sense to me. Failure to do that will actually lead to more centralised bureacracy not less.

But the American model is bottom up and has the reverse assumption: that as much land tax/education/criminal law/legislation etc should be at the town or county level as possible, and that as little power should be given to the federation as possible.

Posted 3 years ago #
G - Member

thats what this meant
Failure to do that will actually lead to more centralised bureacracy not less.

Posted 3 years ago #

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