Sandford I reckon.

Very good old chap…!

Generally the evidential / charging system is barmy. The Police (certainly my force) have no interest at a local level about the proportion of successful prosecutions – so talk of going after the easy results is not true of the Police. The CPS however have a targets based performance system which compares the number of charges to the number of guilty verdicts at Court.

A very few low level crimes (low value thefts, public order and criminal damage, to name a few) are ‘Police Charge’ decisions, which means a decision can be reached by a Custody Sergeant (my current job FWIW), who will consider if they think that there is a reasonable prospect of conviction, and if there would be a public interest to a prosecution.

Most offences including assaults above common assaults, higher value thefts, dwelling burglaries and anything more serious HAVE to be authorised for charge by a CPS prosecutor – who will have one eye on the performance figures and the likely outcome at Court. Interestingly, they also charge all domestic and hate crime offences – Police cannot make a charging decision even if the offence is well evidenced and admissions are made.

The Police have to decide what to investigate, as we have finite resources and finite time. There are very few Officers in most towns – walk into a McDonald’s restaurant at any time of day or night in the average town, and there will be more staff working there than there are Police Officers for the entire town and a good deal of the rural area around it. My current area has a population of 130,000 spread over 270 square miles, and we often patrol it with a Sergeant and nine Constables. That’s 14,500 people each. Should be fine, shouldn’t it?

There have been too many criticisms raised in this thread to address them all, but the Police are often seen as the public face of the entire criminal justice system – the CPS, Courts system, probation teams etc etc all have a part to play. There is very little money knocking around at the moment, and we are being pulled in every different direction going.

Oh, and speed cameras? With a nod to casualty reduction, they are a means of income generation. I spent five years as a traffic cop, and we were strongly encouraged to conduct speed enforcement on ‘productive’ sites – essentially easy speeders, not high risk routes. I hated that aspect of it, which is why I’m in a different job in the Police now.

OP – almost every Officer I know wants a significant reform of UK Policing, which will allow the Police to focus on what the public wants us to focus on, and not deal with every other job that other agencies can’t resource.

I can see where you coming from op, and I kinda agree with you, but I don’t blame the average copper on the street.
The senior officers, management, and government have between them managed to completely **** it all up. Most PCs seem to be pretty stand up people (alright, some are dicks:D) doing a really tough job, in a tough situation.

I’ve worked in children’s homes for the last 9 years. In that time I’ve witnessed police assaulting children, refusing to accept evidence of child abuse, calling 14 year old victims of exploitation a “tease”, refusing to look for missing children, refusing to issue ASBOs against people, then moaning when they act anti-socially, covering up for colleagues after they assaulted children, failing to gather evidence correctly in a rape case, racism, sexism, waiting six months to take a statement from me, then trying to put words in my mouth and the best one, when I called 999 to report a serious violent incident, their response was to call back 6 hours later to see if everything was OK.
There have been some excellent examples of good policing, namely a young PC utilising CCTV to locate a young person remotely, then directing a car to her to make her safe. However, the majority of police officers I come into contact with just seem pissed off that you called them and will do anything to avoid helping.

Forgot one, I once had an officer ask me why I hadn’t broken in through the back window when I reported an address that may have been harbouring a missing child. I was almost arrested for my response.

I found it ridiculous that a prolific high-end bike thief round here was caught but let go with a pat on the bum because it was too expensive to prosecute. Basically nicking bikes is fine.

I find the police force lacking in regard to traffic enforcement. There are a proliferation of private number plates, or normal plates, butchered so they are supposed to read a name or some other hilarity. Also blacked out windows so dark that you can’t see the driver (I don’t care what’s in the back, but the driver should be seen). Nothings done about these, quite minor I’ll admit, infringements.
Very bad driving, I’ve seen folks blat pass those Motorway Wombles at well above 80mph, nothing’s done about that. They’re also very poor/slow to react to accidents and clearing the roads.. I was stuck on the M1 the other day for 3.5hrs when a truck driver forgot to concentrate on driving instead of playing on his iPad and rammed the central reservation, when we trundled passed the incident there was 2 wombles in a Shogun standing by a couple of flashing lights, doing nothing to clear the road or ease the traffic flow..

I fail to see why we bother paying for a traffic police force, if all they rely upon these days is CCTV, or those cameras that log your redg number, to see if your are legal or not.

Some disturbing stories of lack of action in this thread. Personally have only dealt with the police twice in the last 10 years (theft from my car and someone pulling a knife on me) and they did a good job in both cases.
The sheer amount of paper work they have to do these days is staggering and the CPS doesn’t help when it comes to lack of prosecutions either but I’d be livid if they hadn’t investigated some of the things people have mentioned above, I do think it’s the exception rather than the norm though.

O.K., but you have to admit, they had a great drummer.

I found it ridiculous that a prolific high-end bike thief round here was caught but let go with a pat on the bum because it was too expensive to prosecute. Basically nicking bikes is fine.

Which would be fine if the police admitted this and said “look we’re too stretched to deal with theft, so deal with it yourself”.

I’d love to boobytrap my shed with all sorts of anti-theft measures but I fear the police would find the resources prosecute me if a trespasser was injured on my property.

They often find the resources to fine and prosecute easy targets, such as motorists, yet find it difficult to catch known thieves.

Part of it is all the different parts of the chain I think. Like, earlier this year I got caught up in an assault on a shopkeeper- crazy girl attacked man with hammer, ran off, he called 999 on and the response was bloody awful- OK, he was a wee bit hysterical but he’d just been attacked with a hammer so you’d think they’d go “OK, fair enough, you’re having a bad day” rather than “If you don’t calm down I’m going to end the call”, like they were a telesales helpline.

She came back halfway through the call and we had another bout of hammering- so the call handler hung up! Then the next one treated it like a potential hoax because the first call had been marked as abandoned. None of that was the fault of the investigating officers, who were actually really good- but you lump it all in with “police response”, same as with CPS.

While the police are often all too aware of who is responsible for crimes, that is invariably a long way from having the evidence to charge them, grounds to arrest them, or even sufficient grounds to persuade the court to give you a warrant. That’s because of all the legal safeguards that exist to stop the police doing whatever they want.

For example, a few years ago we had a spate of commercial break ins where cash was being stolen. We knew who was doing it, 100%, because of certain things about the crimes, knowledge of drug debts he had, and also information that was coming in from other people – information that people will pass on but invariably and often understandably refuse to provide any sort of statement that can be used as evidence. But he left no forensic evidence, could never be ID’d from CCTV, and was very good at checking a target was being watched by us before deciding whether to go for it.

Could we search his house? No, the court won’t grant a warrant without sufficient cause, and the police pleading we know it’s him doesn’t cut it.

Could we just arrest and charge him? No, we had no evidence. The Fiscal clearly won’t entertain a prosecution simply on the basis of us being sure it was him.

Could we do proper surveillance on him? No, there are huge legal hurdles to overcome before you are allowed to do that, and the criteria weren’t met, so we couldn’t.

Take away all the legal rules and procedures then yeah, we could stand outside his house until he leaves then follow him round all day. That would stop him, but it’s not allowed. We could lock him up, but without lawful grounds or evidence, that wouldn’t be legal. We could sort him out the old fashioned way to get him to stop, but quite rightly that’s not allowed.

I’m not and never have sought to defend poor quality, lazy or incompetent policing. Not at all. But often the notion of ‘the police know it’s him but don’t do anything about it’ is not a fair reflection of what’s really going on. It’s not as straightforward as people sometimes think.

Part of it is all the different parts of the chain I think. Like, earlier this year I got caught up in an assault on a shopkeeper- crazy girl attacked man with hammer, ran off, he called 999 on and the response was bloody awful- OK, he was a wee bit hysterical but he’d just been attacked with a hammer so you’d think they’d go “OK, fair enough, you’re having a bad day” rather than “If you don’t calm down I’m going to end the call”, like they were a telesales helpline.

She came back halfway through the call and we had another bout of hammering- so the call handler hung up! Then the next one treated it like a potential hoax because the first call had been marked as abandoned. None of that was the fault of the investigating officers, who were actually really good- but you lump it all in with “police response”, same as with CPS.

Don’t get me started on police control room staff. 80% of them I would happily strangle.

“fit for purpose”….. This Made me chuckle.

Cousin of mine applied for Hampshire Police. I’m at a complete loss as to how she passed the fitness test. She is 5’5″, weighs about 14,5St. She gets out of breath when chasing the dog around the garden. She hasn’t ridden a bike for the last six years. She has three chins. She says “like” in,like, every sentence. Her grammar is crap.
And she is 21 years old.

HTW did she pass the fitness test?

If she tried to chase me she would stand no chance. If she tried to arrest me I’d laugh in her face.

With applicants like that it is not surprising people lack respect for the police….

Just caught some debt collector nonsense on CH5. Long story short two court officers/debt collectors walk uninvited into some woman’s detached bungalow in persuit of her sons debt. She very understandably asks them to get out. They then ask her to prove ownership of her own car or they’ll seize it. Which she does.

Frustrated she phones the police. Once the police establish who the debt collectors are they go in. Inviting the debt collectors in too. The woman gets upset and remonstrates with the PC asking him to have the debt collectors leave – at which point the cop threatens to arrest the woman for breach of the peace.

Not thread worthy but this kind of shit gets my goat. A woman alone in her house with three strange men gets understandably upset – gets threatened with arrest.

No doubt she would have ended up getting done for breaching the peace, resisting arrest and assaulting an officer if she hadn’t complied.

jimjam – Member

Just caught some debt collector nonsense on CH5. Long story short two court officers/debt collectors walk uninvited into some woman’s detached bungalow in persuit of her sons debt. She very understandably asks them to get out. They then ask her to prove ownership of her own car or they’ll seize it. Which she does.

Frustrated she phones the police. Once the police establish who the debt collectors are they go in. Inviting the debt collectors in too. The woman gets upset and remonstrates with the PC asking him to have the debt collectors leave – at which point the cop threatens to arrest the woman for breach of the peace.

Not thread worthy but this kind of shit gets my goat. A woman alone in her house with three strange men gets understandably upset – gets threatened with arrest.

No doubt she would have ended up getting done for breaching the peace, resisting arrest and assaulting an officer if she hadn’t complied.

I assume you’re talking about “Can’t pay, we’ll take it away”?.

Whilst they are ‘Debt Collectors’ in the broadest sense, they are also High Court approved. They represent the very last line in debt collection – they’re only used when someone owes money, has been taken to court at least once, usually twice and court has agreed they do owe the money and the creditor has proven they have refused to repay it, in any sort of reasonable time frame for a long period of time 6 months in the least but it’s usually more than 2 years.

I’m met a lot through work and they are a mixed bunch, some have progressed from being Night Club Bouncers and other security jobs, Some come the other way from more customer friendly finance work – some are arseholes who really would love you to take a swing at them so they can give you a kicking but most are completely non-confrontational – but the nature of the job means they tend to be Male and quite Large.

It’s not a nice job, it’s not a nice thing to happen to someone, but there has to be a final consequence if you owe someone money and refuse to pay. It’s worth noting that that cannot enforce consumer finance agreements, so they won’t come knocking for credit card bills – I think they’d have a better reputation if every half-arsed ‘debt collector’ didn’t pretend to be a ‘bailiff’ and threaten all manner of stuff they can’t actually do.

If you think they’re tough, you should meet the less ‘offical’ Asset Recovery people we used to use to get our plant stuff back when some **** shipped it to Eastern Europe or somewhere. They were actally funny guys to chat to, but **** nuts – breaking into yards in latvia in the middle of the night to steal back excavator from the people who stole it by fraud from us and driving it through the night to Russia

“fit for purpose”….. This Made me chuckle.

Cousin of mine applied for Hampshire Police. I’m at a complete loss as to how she passed the fitness test. She is 5’5″, weighs about 14,5St. She gets out of breath when chasing the dog around the garden. She hasn’t ridden a bike for the last six years. She has three chins. She says “like” in,like, every sentence. Her grammar is crap.
And she is 21 years old.

HTW did she pass the fitness test?

If she tried to chase me she would stand no chance. If she tried to arrest me I’d laugh in her face.

With applicants like that it is not surprising people lack respect for the police….

Lesbian, gay, ethnic by chance? They’d shit themselves rather than say no. 🙂

12k’s of bikes in a garage?!?!!?

“Lesbian, gay, ethnic by chance? They’d shit themselves rather than say no.”

Nope…White, middle class and 0 GCSEs to her name. Oh, and massively overweight….

alpin

Nope…White, middle class and 0 GCSEs to her name. Oh, and massively overweight….

How would you feel if you were phone shopping together and the sales assistant mistook her for your wife?

BMI standards for Police Officers are set by the Home Office. The current Home Office Circular 59/2004 outlines this as between 18 to 30. Applicants who do not meet this standard may find their application delayed and/or will not be appointed

😆 @jimjam….

Bikebuoy. I do know how you feel, but traffic policing numbers have been cut, cut and then cut again,
In my area I know in the late 1980’s there were 80 PC’s operating out of three posts. From those three posts they covered a large part of the county. In 2016 there are 25 operating out of the one base. Consider that 25 has to be split within shifts to provide 24hr cover, then consider some may be on holiday, perhaps sick or on a course. It doesn’t leave many to go around an area of many many hundreds of square miles.
The distances they have to travel is phenomenal. Its not their fault it takes time to get to an incident. A fifty mile drive even at high speed takes time and is mentally exhausting.
Its not the lower ranks that have done this, it from the top down. Government and senior management have put money and resources into other aspects of policing.
So, no perhaps blacked out windows and illegal number plates don’t get the attention they should, nor do drink drivers, use of mobile phones and a myriad of other offences that irritate us, and that years ago got dealt with by larger staff numbers.
As far as the ‘wombles’ you mention. In theory you can go past them as fast as you like. They are Highway Officers employed by the DfT to assist in the free flow of traffic. They are not warranted officers, have very few actual powers and are not answerable to the local PCC.
As far as the HGV stuck in the central reserve, yes, you had a PITA journey, but put yourself in the position of the ‘Womble’, you have a 44t vehicle embedded on a barrier. How are you going to move it? Have you considered how long it might take to tranship an HGV’s cargo? Its not quick and its not easy in the centre of the motorway. Recovery was perhaps on its way, but again that is very specialist and HGV recovery trucks are not parked on every slip road.
Yes, I feel for you and others who think that perhaps one policing department isn’t up to scratch, but I’m sure its not the choice of the bobby in the car, he is a victim of cost cutting in the same way as many different professions in the public sector.

In their defence, well maybe more mitigation than actual defence, police are also having their already meagre and reducing resources called upuon as the last line of defence when the even more constrained health and social care system fails – hence those news reports you see about the mentally unwell sleeping in cells or even police cars because there’s no other safe place for them to be taken.

Onpolice numbers – I have worked alongside them a bit and was astonished how few of them are on duty at any one time. I seem to remember ( could be wrong but it was very low) it could be as low as 6 “beat officers” for an entire city of 300 000 folk on a saturday night

My old man was stopped as his number plate had a font that was stopped (his fault for not checking even though MOT guy said it was fine).

Plod pulled him over and gave him a fine there and then. No producer/correct option and told him lucky his lights were ok as he was clamping down on faulty lights.

My Father apologised and said he didn’t know as they were legal from Halfords. The policeman was then rude and said you can keep your lies to yourself!

So 20 mins in the back of the car checking my old mans history, he was allowed to go home with a fine.

4 months later, a special C.O. was being attacked by 2 guys and my old man helps her. Then before leaving, he gets asked to prove his I.D. and residence!

Now my old man wouldn’t p#% on a police officer who was on fire – his own words.

I still tell him not to label/prejudice a large population based on a stupid minority.

I still tell him not to label/prejudice a large population based on a stupid minority.

I seem to remember ( could be wrong but it was very low) it could be as low as 6 “beat officers” for an entire city of 300 000 folk on a saturday night

Well at least the number of people he has to judge is fewer now. #everyclound.

i’ll just leave this here…..

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2wt-SSFBIk[/video]

The police dog handler who took me to A&E when no ambulances were available was great…I guess this shows the issues they face and why other more important things get missed

I’ve written out two responses on this thread and then deleted them without pressing send. Some of the stories above really do sound indefensible so I’m not even going to try. Unfortunately there are knobs in all corners of society.

I have been a cop for 21 years and I’m totally despondent about the effects that the cuts in our numbers is having and the direction that our service seems to be heading.

I have to be as vague as possible here but something that I was told yesterday was not a priority because we’re too busy safeguarding two different sets of criminals from each other has genuinely left me wondering how much longer I can continue…

I think a big problem is that the police are the front end of the whole criminal justice system, and a lot of the problems aren’t the fault of individual officers, they’re the ones who have to deal with decisions or incompetence higher up.

Pretty much every experience I’ve had with the police they’ve been decent and competent – even when charging me 😉

The real issues are later on, with the Procurator Fiscal and the courts. The way the courts service can waste everyone’s time for days on end is remarkable.

A police officer told a victim of assault (offering both witnesses and video evidence) that there’s no point pursuing it as she will not be considered a reliable witness, due only to her being a looked after child. The whole exercise was based around getting the victim to accept an apology from the person who assaulted her so as to avoid a court case.
After much coercion, the child reluctantly agreed to the apology. When the guy that assaulted her (who we suspected may have been grooming her) turned up, she was clearly terrified. The apology was clearly not taken particularly seriously by either the perpetrator of the assault or the police. But then, why would they care? They didn’t have to deal with the late nights, the panic attacks or the nightmares. They clearly acted on their preconceptions regarding children in care and took the course of action that required the least amount of work on their part.
Yes, I’m sure there are a few good coppers and cuts have been hard, but I’ve come across too many awful human beings in the uniform to hear about it.
Also, all us public servants are having to deal with major cuts, not all of us are using it as an excuse for being shit.

“I have been a cop for 21 years and I’m totally despondent about the effects that the cuts in our numbers is having and the direction that our service seems to be heading.”

I’m sorry, but this kind of ‘cop out’ really doesn’t excuse the actions and behaviour of a large number of serving police officers. You don’t get ambulance/fire crews etc acting badly/not doing their jobs properly, because of cuts.

You don’t get ambulance/fire crews etc acting badly/not doing their jobs properly, because of cuts.

Yes you do, see my earlier post. I called ambulance was told it was on its way. Passer by did same. After 1/2 an hour someone called again told the same. After 40mins a police car turned up. Told ambulance wasnt available so he took me under blue light to hospital.
I’m not writing this to be critical of the ambulance service but had it been the police not turning up to a crime people would be moaning.

That’s not the same though, response times are largely out of the control of front line staff and are a more obvious symptom of cuts.
A parallel would be an ambulance crew turning up to a patient with a broken leg, saying it’s not worth their time and telling the injured party to take themselves to hospital. I’ve had as many interactions with the ambulance service as I have with the police in my professional capacity and the experience is totally different, much more professional, even in difficult circumstances.