- This topic has 72 replies, 49 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by fin25.
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Police – fit for purpose?
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elzorilloFree Member
I hate saying this.. but I really no longer think they are..
I’ve had probably half a dozen direct/indirect dealings with them this year, each and every one of them abysmal.. If you’re interested I’ll list them. the first very trivial but grates on me..
Two days ago riding legally along the road towards a pedestrianized area, stopped by a policeman 50 yards from area, who said.. ‘You’re old enough to know better so I hope you dont intend to ride down that pedestrian area.’ wtf? I’ve been walking through that area every weekday for 24 years.
Two weeks ago caught on our works outdoor cctv a local well known thief kicking a shop door in opposite at 4am running off with the till. The Shops own internal cctv also clearly shows the mans face.. police response.. doesnt identify him clear enough. No further action.
Three weeks ago caught on same cctv. Another local prolific thief who we all recognized smash car window and steals handbag. Police response.. not clear enough. No further action.
Five weeks ago I caught red handed at 3am a thief inside my car. He’d forced the drivers window open with a bar. I handed him to the police who took him (and his two mates) away. response? there was none, and on my enquiry was simply told there would be no further action.
Couple of months ago a pals store was robbed in the middle of the night and a £4.5k bike stolen. All caught on cctv.. another well known thief. He sold the bike for £80.. court fined him £60. Easy £20 profit.
Few months ago my daughters ex abusive partner broke into her house and beat her up in front of her five year old daughter (she’s pregnant). Police response.. No proof it was him other than a five year olds testimony. His word against hers. No further action.
Few weeks previous.. her car trashed.. all four tyres and windows by same person.. His junkie girlfriend admitted it was him but her word against his so police response.. No proof it was him.
Previous still, whilst she’s staying at ours he goes to her house and smashes the doors in on her house and ransacks the place. neighbors identify him. Police response.. none.
Excluding the 6/8 police officers almost daily parked up around town at areas where the speed drops from a 40 to a 30 with their cameras catching motorists.. whats the point of them??
unfitgeezerFree MemberSound so like you should move and disown your family and friends they all sound like liabilities!
What part of the world you in ?
trailwaggerFree MemberWOW.
Can only comment on the CCTV as i have had experience installing systems in the past and there are requirements that have to be met for the footage to be admissable. Ie, a car reg plate has to be one third of the width of the footage to be admissable (i may have the figure wrong but you get the idea, it was a while ago)
elzorilloFree MemberYou seem to live in a lovely area and know all the thieves.
The joys of living in the same small town your whole life.
clodhopperFree MemberSeems odd that they wouldn’t act in an assault case where a child was involved. Obviously we only have your side of things, yet still seems bad.
As for theft etc; a lot of it is political; police will act when there is a good chance of prosecution and conviction, and when securing convictions makes police figures look good. Stuff like petty theft is quite hard to get good ‘results’ on (you can nick a thief, but invariably, stolen goods have disappeared by the time the police show up, and it then becomes notoriously difficult to secure any sort of conviction). Police response is directly proportionate to the wealth of an area; richer areas get better policing, as resources are concentrated to protect richer folk (who have more political clout, generaly), and the poorest generally get f-all.
Speed cameras: There’s the obvious ‘outrage’ from folk who claim it’s just revenue generation, but then, police can and do get some great figures for reducing accidents/speeding when they employ such tactics, so it looks good on end of year reports etc. It’s all about those reports and figures…
TL;DR: Politics, basically.
DracFull MemberPolice charge CPS prosecute if there’s not enough evidence the CPS won’t prosecute.
I lived in a small town all my life until my mid 20s and lived in the current one longer, can’t say either is anything like that or I’d know the thieves even in the position I’m in.
thegreatapeFree Memberelzorillo, it’s no consolation, but your frustrations are shared by many in the police too. There are some good ones that care, some bad ones that don’t care, and lots of frustrated ones who are too overstretched/underfunded to do anything meaningful to reflect how much they care. I don’t know where you are but monkeysfeet is quite correct. Arguably the police service as a whole isn’t fit for purpose. It is certainly at, if not past, breaking point in terms of resources being unable to meet demand. Sorry for your shit experiences.
jekkylFull Membergood god, what a litany of crimes. I’d be making some complaints iiwy.
Can we have a go at guess at the town? my guess is Barrow in Furness. 🙂
matt_outandaboutFull MemberCan we have a go at guess at the town?
I’m betting Earlstown.
scudFree MemberI always used to have the utmost respect for the Police, even tried to join the police force when i left the army, but recently, like the OP, have lost faith in them, everything seems to be about the “quick fix” crime, can they catch you with a speed camera or breathalyser and if so, straight into Court system or straight fine.
I have been knocked off my bike on my commute home twice in the last year. The first time the lady simply pulled straight out of a side road into my path. I went over the bars and landed on her bonnet putting my heel through her windscreen. Passers by called the Police, they attended and she admitted she had seen my but mis-judged how quickly i was moving so pulled out. Despite being injured, they just gave me her insurance details and no further action was ever taken.
The second time, a white Transit knocked me clean off as he got so close, pushing me into roadworks, he knew he had hit me, stopped briefly and looked at me lying on ground, but then drove off, leaving me with back pain and two broken ribs, the driver behind took registration and phoned the Police and said exactly what had happened, 8 months later, they haven’t so much as taken a statement from her.
i understand that their job can be a thankless task, that funding has cut and they are down in numbers, but you would hope that they would undertake the simpler tasks.
When my car was stolen near Guildford, the thieves broke the steering lock, so as they tried to drive off they crashed it into a wall. I called Surrey Police and they said that if they’d like the car to be finger-printed for them to investigate, i would have to pay for the vehicle to be uplifted to them, i did wander what i paid taxes for??
enfhtFree MemberI can only speak from personal experience, but in every case bar none the old bill have been completely useless, inept and incompetent. They blame all their shortcomings on ‘cutbacks’ but that’s BS.
elzorilloFree MemberI live in Nottinghamshire and my town is no worse than any other (actually better than a lot).. I know the local thieves because I work in the town centre and come across them daily. Pretty much every town has crime every day.. the fact you dont know it’s occurring is primarily due to you maybe not being in the town centre to witness it or more frustratingly, that the vast majority of crime doesnt lead to any kind of prosecution so they’re never publicized.
We seem to live in an era where petty criminals and petty crimes are ignored. I know for certain that if half a dozen habitual petty criminals were locked up in my town, the reported crimes would drop 90%
stumpy01Full MemberApart from the thief in your car scenario, you seem to be confusing the Police with the CPS.
My Wife is in the Police & catching someone is one thing. Getting a concrete enough case to get the CPS to proceed with it is another thing entirely……and the Police are probably just as frustrated about it as you are.
You can’t really expect much less with the amount of government cuts – some forces seem barely able to function as a skeleton crew….
If it concerns you that much, I would write a letter to your MP about it (seriously) expressing your concerns. Without public pressure, I reckon it’s only going to get worse.That aside – I genuinely hope the luck/fortune/circumstance of you & your friends improves, because you seem to have all had a lot of unfortunate run-ins.
P-JayFree MemberI can’t wholeheartedly condemn them, but they’ve been made ‘efficient’ which is the problem IMHO (one shared with a recently former Detective and her still serving Custody Sargent I know).
I know it’s a cliché to talk about “going after real criminals” but for the most part they don’t.
They’re pretty good at arresting otherwise law abiding people who break the law – punch someone in sight of a CCTV camera and if someone identifies you, you’ll likely be arrested and charged because they’ll turn up at your house and you’ll “come quietly” spill your side of the story about how you were provoked etc and they say “well that’s terrible, that’s understandable” and charge you with assault, the CPS will look at the open and closed case evidence – did he punch someone – CCTV says yes – charged.
But if you’re a professional wrong ‘un – you won’t have a fixed abode, so they’ll ask your Mum where you live and she’ll say “I don’t know” they might attempt to find you maybe once, possibly twice – then they’ll stop actively looking for you – there will be a warrant issued, but unless you’re arrested for something else you’ll never be caught – they could spend a few hours with the DWP, get a warrant to find out when and where you sign-on and nick you as you arrive – but that’s a lot of work for a simple assault and they don’t have the budget for that – it’s not ‘efficient’ – 2 years later when you’re picked up for something else they’ll ask lots of questions, which you’ll give “no comment” to, by then the victim isn’t interested, the witnesses are in the wind and the CPS won’t fancy it.
Have your house or shed/garage burgled or car stolen and unless you catch someone in the act (don’t use disproportional force or you WILL be arrested) and they’ll mostly want to give you a crime number for the insurance and move on. Should you talk someone into coming around, they’ll mooch about a bit, ask “what do you want us to do?” and leave – 3 days later you get a letter to say the case is closed and advice on how to try to recover your stolen items by monitoring eBay. Stolen items on eBay aren’t sold by the person who nicked them, they’re sold by the mug who bought them from the thief. This was a big shock to me, but pretty much these days’ thieves only face risk during the act, the Police can’t investigate household burglaries. I was told pretty much who stole our stuff, they knew his name, where he lived, who he worked with and that he was a prolific thief and “our local thief” and had been for years (still is) you’d think they could task a few people who investigate him, stakeouts and stuff – nah, no budget for that.
Motoring offences though, well that’s easy – do it all with cameras, throwaway centuries of principles and change the rules so it’s guilty until proven innocent and levy huge penalties for failing to do so. Make some offences absolute offenses – there is no defence – you’re guilty. If you’re an otherwise law abiding person, it’s easy for them – your car will be in your name, at your address and you won’t drive if you’re banned or don’t have insurance etc – but for the hardcore wrong ‘uns they don’t have any of this so largely go unpunished – if they are caught it’s penalty points and a ban on a license they don’t hold and a few hundred quid fine they’ll pay at £3 a week.
It’s probably not as bad as I’m making out, but IMHO given the budget and restrictions they face they’re only really good at 3 things these days –
Convicting easy to convict people, for easy to convict things – to the underclass of hardened criminals they’re pretty ineffective these days.
Protecting public order – from keeping football matches from turning into fights to keeping the bloodshed down on Friday nights.
Thankfully – investigating serious crimes, especially sexual and violent ones. At least when it’s a proper serious crime they still can make a difference.
smiththemainmanFree MemberEasiest way to get a response , kick the shit out of the daughters ex, you can then raise all your points!
tjagainFull MemberMy local police ( Edinburgh) have been professional polite and efficient in all my dealings with them. Same for my friends that have had dealings with them.
As for the speed cameras thing – deaths and seriously injured on the roads far outweigh any other source of deaths and injuries and effective road traffic policing is proven to reduce this. speeding is one major factor. So actually thats a very good use of police time as it will save lives.
Some of the incidents you mention why not push them harder? Its perfectly possible to do so
jambalayaFree MemberMake a written complaint.
Write to the local PCC and ask for a meeting.This will have minimal impact sadly but if you don’t do it they will just keep ignoring you. I think there is a strong argument for a nationalised Police management structure, regionalised management just seems like top jobs for the boys/girls
CoyoteFree MemberCan we have a go at guess at the town?
I’m betting Earlstown.
You from the Newton-le-Willows area?
From the police point of view, my BiL is a sergeant in the GMP. the number of officers and vehicles he has available to cover a significant part of the Wigan area is truly frightening. Successive governments have cut and cut at police budgets to the point where they have to be selective in the calls they respond to. It’s a disgraceful situation but one that politicians of all shades are responsible for.
MSPFull MemberAs I see it, the police are as incompetent, lazy and useless as I am at work, but their job is too important for them to model their levels of professionalism on the standards that I set.
Successive governments have cut and cut at police budgets
I am not sure that is true, iirc it is only the current government that has cut police budgets, the police force have done rather well previously while other areas of government spending has been slashed and burnt.
davetraveFree MemberFew months ago my daughters ex abusive partner broke into her house and beat her up in front of her five year old daughter (she’s pregnant). Police response.. No proof it was him other than a five year olds testimony. His word against hers. No further action.
Few weeks previous.. her car trashed.. all four tyres and windows by same person.. His junkie girlfriend admitted it was him but her word against his so police response.. No proof it was him.
Previous still, whilst she’s staying at ours he goes to her house and smashes the doors in on her house and ransacks the place. neighbors identify him. Police response.. none.
Is ex/abusive partner previously known to police for abusing daughter? If yes and/or there is a pattern of behaviour, which it appears from your side of the story there is, then there should be a domestic abuse risk assessment in place… If you’re getting no response/NFA to something like this then you should be taking it up initially with the duty inspector of the local station.
elzorilloFree MemberIs ex/abusive partner previously known to police for abusing daughter? If yes and/or there is a pattern of behaviour, which it appears from your side of the story there is, then there should be a domestic abuse risk assessment in place… If you’re getting no response/NFA to something like this then you should be taking it up initially with the duty inspector of the local station.
To be honest it’s been an absolute nightmare.. for our daughter and us. She is now happily married to a great guy but the connection with this nutcase will always be there due to him being the father of her first child. All the relevant authorities are aware of him but he gets drunk/high and then randomly goes on a rampage. He’s not allowed near his daughter unsupervised and only for very short periods but blames everyone else for the situation rather than himself. He recently whilst in a drunken rage beat his own father that badly, he put him in hospital for 10 weeks (he was awaiting trial for GBH with intent but I doubt anything will come of it as usual). Terrible situation and no end in sight for a good few years yet unless of course he ODs.
bailsFull MemberPolice charge CPS prosecute if there’s not enough evidence the CPS won’t prosecute
But, in my experience, the police don’t pass things (driving offences) to the CPS if they don’t think the CPS will prosecute, despite similar things being prosecuted elsewhere.
DracFull MemberBut, in my experience, the police don’t pass things (driving offences) to the CPS if they don’t think the CPS will prosecute, despite similar things being prosecuted elsewhere.
Every case is different though.
big_n_daftFree Memberyou need to work the system
find out who is the neighbourhood PCSO/ PC for the area and chat to them
attend the local neighbourhood policing forums
for all incidents write to the police asking for written confirmation of the crime number and the action taken
write to/ get a meeting with the PCC
write to/ get a meeting with the local councillor/ MP
start/ join a local traders group
set up a Facebook page posting the videos (after all if not sufficient to identify anyone what is the issue?)
Police reflect their communities and the communities reflect the policing. So don’t give up and don’t let them give up
wobbliscottFree MemberWell overall crime rates are low so the system, of which the Police are a part, are doing an effective job. THey have a pretty hard job to be honest. Most of the public hate them and don’t want to help them, but when something happens to them they expect the Police to rock up and solve the crime instantaneously. They get targeted for physical violence by criminal types, and are forever dealing with a general public that seem to put criminals on a pedestal, like the Kray’s and the Great Train Robbers. And if they do interject and have to get physical with someone it is likely to result in a complaint being made and they being hauled over some form of tribunal or enquiry where they are cross examined and made to feel like the criminals themselves. And they’re working within a system that heavily favours the defendant such that everything has to be 100% in order and procedurally correct or the whole case is thrown out of court. It’s a thankless and impossible job.
The handful of coppers I’ve known are genuine people and in it to try to make a difference and do a good job, but are frustrated by all the organisational and procedural barriers put in their place and a general public who don’t seem to support them. And they’ve all got a tale or two to tell.
But despite all this and the odd rotten apple, which exists In all professions and organisations the fact is that they are doing a good job.
chrismacFull MemberI gave up on the police years ago. My force, Notts, are only interested in speeding. My parents were burgled and all the police did was issue a crime number and tell them to sort it out with their insurance. When 5 more houses in the same village were burgled in the same 2 weeks they still did nothing
milky1980Free MemberGood advice from big_n_daft.
I deal with South Wales Police on a regular basis via work and the higher up officers are good at following up on stuff that is a higher response level than petty crime but anything dealt with by the regular plods on the beat are near-useless. They have no real authority to investigate anything without authorisation so they just gather the basic info (CCTV, victim statement) and put it in a file.
In general though no, they’re not fit for purpose. Too many rules, regulations and lack of funding for the current system to work correctly.
davetraveFree MemberWell overall crime rates are low so the system, of which the Police are a part, are doing an effective job
Or is it just potentially because fewer people are reporting issues because they don’t expect anything to come of it given a lack of resources in the justice system to deal with less serious crime…? Discuss.
tjagainFull MemberNope – crime is well down on historical levels tho has risen a bit recently. Crime rates are calculated not on reported crime but on large groups of peoples actual experiences of crime.
Those tht say ” nothing was done” – how do you know nothing was done?
big_n_daftFree MemberThe risk is that the police culturally descend into only worrying about serious crime and keeping ordinary decent people inline to stop vigilantes leaving a void for frequent low to mid level offenders to just do what they like blaming “resources” and the CPS
mrhoppyFull MemberCan’t say my experience is great. Garage broken into and £12k of bikes stolen, nothing. Had to chase for the crime ref no.
When a bus nearly drove into the back of me and then drove off. They hunted for 3 months to find me (because despite having my leg no on the bus CCTV they were looking for the wrong car) to send me on a driving awareness course and try to prosecute me for leaving the scene of an accident.
clodhopperFree Member“you need to work the system
find out who is the neighbourhood PCSO/ PC for the area and chat to them
attend the local neighbourhood policing forums
for all incidents write to the police asking for written confirmation of the crime number and the action taken
write to/ get a meeting with the PCC
write to/ get a meeting with the local councillor/ MP
start/ join a local traders group
set up a Facebook page posting the videos (after all if not sufficient to identify anyone what is the issue?)”
Blimey; someone’s pregnant daughter is beaten up by a known violent thug, and they’re expected to do all that just to get a response? 😯
“Police reflect their communities and the communities reflect the policing.”
Roughly translated, this means that rich people get better policing, as they are far more likely to be able to take expensive legal action against the police if things go wrong. Someone in Mayfair or Hampstead is the ‘victim’ of a rude comment, and you’ll have an armed response unit there in seconds. Someone is raped and beaten up in a rough part of Middlesborough, and they’ll be lucky to get a crime reference number for their insurance… 🙄
As I said earlier; it’s all about politics.
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