Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 40 total)
  • Police Caution
  • Royston
    Free Member

    I received a ‘caution’ from the police back in 2004 for doing something a bit dumb (is it the same as a conviction?). I have stayed out of trouble since. Does anyone anyone know if if drops off after a while (like points on your driving licence)?
    I recently had to produce a police certificate for a job and it came back saying no live trace. I always thought/hoped it would go away after a while?
    Anybody Know?

    d45yth
    Free Member

    Don’t worry, a caution is in no way a conviction!

    Watty
    Full Member

    Have a look here.

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    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any ‘criminal convictions’ they can answer ‘no’. Sometimes people are asked if they have a ‘criminal record’. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a ‘criminal record’ may also answer ‘no’ if they have no convictions.
    However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)
    Benefits Of The Act

    http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Road_Traffic_Law/Rehabiliation_of_Offenders_Act

    I seem to recall some cautions for some jobs are never spent [ youth worker , teacher, nursery worker type thing – drugs, sex offences and some violence but not 100% sure

    Many employers ask but because of the job they cannot actually get a CRB

    restless
    Free Member

    I just did an enhanced CRB check, got it in the post today and my caution from 2002 is on there.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    I had to do a police check recently for a visa and was surprised to see an offence from my childhood which i believed would be spent when i turned 18.

    Least i know it wasnt just my lack of brains that stopped me being a doctor 🙂

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I thought only serious offences and sexual stuff didn’t drop off after six yrs

    heckler73
    Free Member

    i have applied for the police twice, pulled out through process though, but i had a caution from years ago i thought would show up, it did not, i even mentioned it to police , in case it popped up further on , but no………

    samuri
    Free Member

    I had a caution when I was younger.

    The policeman said “watch out, that floor is slippy”.

    donsimon
    Free Member

    i have applied for the police twice, pulled out through process though, but i had a caution from years ago i thought would show up, it did not, i even mentioned it to police , in case it popped up further on , but no………

    They look after their own, innit?

    vondally
    Free Member

    junkyrad and restless correct on certain cautions for specific posts e.g youth worker social worker and so or those posts working with vunerable individuals.

    TuckerUK
    Free Member

    i have applied for the police twice, pulled out through process though, but i had a caution from years ago i thought would show up, it did not, i even mentioned it to police , in case it popped up further on , but no………

    There was a FOI request to some Force (sorry chaps, Service) asking what convictions serving officers had. Scarey results, plenty of serious offences, including firearms ones!

    onceinalifetime
    Free Member

    Legal responsibility changed in 2009 to 10yrs old.
    Enhanced crb will show cautions indefinitely which I recently found out after having smoked a £1’s of hash when I was 15yrs old. Sucks donkey dick and will be putting this forward to constabulary as it,s not right to have this hanging over my head so long after when scum who commit evil actions literally get wcott free in a majority of cases put forward to magistrates.
    Simply shocking!
    Chin up for those in simiplar position and question it, do not leave it and think it will be spent.

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    Royston – Member
    I received a ‘caution’ from the police back in 2004 for doing something a bit dumb (is it the same as a conviction?). I have stayed out of trouble since. Does anyone anyone know if if drops off after a while (like points on your driving licence)?
    I recently had to produce a police certificate for a job and it came back saying no live trace. I always thought/hoped it would go away after a while?
    Anybody Know?

    A caution is not a ‘conviction’ but it does go on your ‘record’…

    I know because the ‘old bill’ once tried to con me by ‘letting me off’ with a caution (they knew they had jack all on me because I hadn’t committed an offence, rather a girlfriend crying wolf).

    My solicitor advised me not to accept the caution as it would go down ‘on record’. I didn’t accept it and walked free. 8)

    onceinalifetime
    Free Member

    Rapist in the house! 😛

    seriously though, tell us more.

    donsimon
    Free Member

    My solicitor advised me not to accept the caution as it would go down ‘on record’. I didn’t accept it and walked free.

    That’s AWESOME.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    Cool story bro. 🙄

    Legal responsibility changed in 2009 to 10yrs old.
    Enhanced crb will show cautions indefinitely which I recently found out after having smoked a £1’s of hash when I was 15yrs old. Sucks donkey dick and will be putting this forward to constabulary as it,s not right to have this hanging over my head so long after when scum who commit evil actions literally get wcott free in a majority of cases put forward to magistrates.
    Simply shocking!
    Chin up for those in simiplar position and question it, do not leave it and think it will be spent.

    Have you ever been refused a job because of it though? Has anyone been refused a job for such a minor ancient offence?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Yes of course they have why do you think they ask …because they dont care?

    It may not matter it really depend on the employer as there are few rules as to what offences are ok and what are not ok but companies are risk averse.

    onceinalifetime
    Free Member

    Not sure who your rolling your eyes at but yes it has not deprived me of a job, just it should of been spent and has inflicted a risk assessment which would need to be carried out if I choose to work there. Plus the work offered to me would be limited so yes it has ”limited” my options which I’m sure is a great shame as I would be a credit to their clients.

    WTF, don’t you actually think I know it’s one of the most common offences across the board of many different backgrounds..!

    I spoke to the CRB folk who enlightened me a touch and who were utterly useless on updating my birth details as both police and themselves had incorrect detail but none which was acting as an alias informations so go figure.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Have you ever been refused a job because of it though? Has anyone been refused a job for such a minor ancient offence?

    Yes.

    Not me personally, as I was on the other side of the fence.

    But the company I worked for had a contract at Highgrove, and out of 40 odd staff, only 4 of us had clean records and were allowed to work there !!

    ANY record at all, for ANYTHING, and the application was binned instantly.

    donsimon
    Free Member

    ANY record at all, for ANYTHING, and the application was binned instantly.

    I’m so glad we don’t live in a police state, could you imagine it?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    No comment 😉

    I was happy enough though, the job was fairly easy and a because there was only four of us allowed to do it, it took ages (and the food at Highgrove was awesome !)

    restless
    Free Member

    Have you ever been refused a job because of it though? Has anyone been refused a job for such a minor ancient offence?

    I will find that out in the coming week, as my current job offer, working with vulnerable adults, is subject to CRB check. My caution is 10yrs old and was for criminal damage, so I will have to wait and see if it affects the job offer.

    Royston
    Free Member

    From what I can gather so far It looks like I didn’t need to declare it(semantics), irrelevant now however and frankly I’d rather it was discussed rather than be seen (or assumed to be seen) to be hiding something if it came out later. Directgov website distiguishes between a caution and a conditional caution Definitely not a conviction though so that’s good!
    Looks like the length of time it remains available to an enhanced crb was extended in 2009(this could of course be extended again depending on whose in Government). It will always be on my criminal record, however given what I said above this is all largely irrelevant.

    onceinalifetime

    Rapist in the house!

    seriously though, tell us more. Cue STW Flaming

    ‘Common assault’ my then partner attacked me with a kitchen knife during an argument a physical struggle ensued in which I held her wrists and smashed her hand holding the knife against a door frame until she dropped it. She incurred injuries to her hand ‘cuts and bruises’ and reported me to the police.

    ali69er
    Free Member

    What people say about cautions and certain jobs is true but actually its entirely about the employers discretion rather than the offence in itself preventing you from applying for jobs. Loads of teacher, police officers etc have them.

    I have one now near 10 years old and it didn’t stop me getting into another country with it on a long term visa

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    ali69er

    it makes the visa process for me for certain countrys i go to work in rather convoluted.

    If it wasnt there i could get a visa in days – as it is its a matter of weeks.

    mildred
    Full Member

    As a ‘practitioner’, I do believe that the criminal justice system is all to eager to criminalise those people who make the odd mistake, or error in judgement in their youth.

    In my opinion the criminal justice system is pretty much broken. Restorative justice has recently been introduced which seeks to keep those who have made mistakes out of the CJS. However, not that long ago Police Officer discretion coupled with a common sense attitude without performance indicators, did exactly this.

    It’s all being ‘sold’ as a new way, but in reality it’s an admission that the CJS is now so wrapped up in red tape that it is verging on being unfit for purpose.

    Conversely, it is odd to hear how some organisations treat would be employees after a CRB check or the way a question on an application form is answered. Speaking to friends, family, and workmates about this, there seems to be an issue over how the results are viewed. E.g. Above; just refusing to employee someone based on a fairly low key incident seems like lazy recruitment procedures.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    The police caution is an exercise of police discretion.

    Yes of course they have why do you think they ask …because they dont care?

    I think they (they being the people who are making a decision about whether to employ people working with vulnerable people) require enhanced disclosure because the vulnerability is such that a normal assessment which looked at only actual unspent convictions would be inappropriate. But in the wide world – and especially in the sectors that work with vulnerable people – there’s no expectation that the only people who could work in those positions are those with spotless records. The presence of spots doesn’t per se indicate an unacceptable level of risk. There are plenty of people who work with vulnerable people who have minor cautions and convictions. My friend (well, acquaintance, really) works with at risk boys and has an old bike theft conviction from when he was 17. He has to declare it every time but it has never held him back.

    the company I worked for had a contract at Highgrove, and out of 40 odd staff, only 4 of us had clean records and were allowed to work there !!

    Unless the job was one that appears on the secondary legislation around Rehab of Offenders or Police Act, that would be illegal (and hopelessly limiting, but that’s another question): http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/CRB/about-the-crb/eligible-positions-guide?view=Binary

    Not sure who your rolling your eyes

    Don Simon/Patriotpro

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I dont disagree Kona but some folk with “spent” convictions will not have been able to get jobs. It does affect decisions..how often who knows

    restless
    Free Member

    I dont disagree Kona but some folk with “spent” convictions will not have been able to get jobs. It does affect decisions..how often who knows

    Well I just had my job offer with the NHS withdrawn today because of my caution from 10yrs ago.
    My would be manager said that because I didnt mention it in interview she is withdrawing my offer.

    Gutted is an understatement. I really didnt think it would matter, lesson learned .

    MSP
    Full Member

    Unless the job was one that appears on the secondary legislation around Rehab of Offenders or Police Act, that would be illegal (and hopelessly limiting, but that’s another question):

    Well they have an appeals procedure, unfortunately it is designed to grind you down until you surrender. It’s basically a bureaucratic nightmare designed to protect the system rather than achieve fairness.
    Sometimes the intentions or “the public face” of legislation is very different to its actual process.

    zokes
    Free Member

    Fark. That’s a bugger. Hard luck 🙁

    restless
    Free Member

    I thought about appealing but if succesful, I would be working for a manager who didn’t want me there, so I don’t think I could do that.

    Also it was a job in a secure unit for offenders, so that probably menas I wouldn’t be able to appeal anyway, based other responses on here 🙁

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    So would the job offer have been withdrawn if you had mentioned the caution?

    Or was it that that they saw you as evasive; rather than a criminal mastermind?

    restless
    Free Member

    She told me the job offer was withdrawn because during interview they asked me if i had any criminal convictions and i said no.

    When i filled out the crb form , i ticked the box asking about cautions so didnt lie. I even attached a note explaining what it was for and the reason i didnt mention it at interview was because i didnt think it counted as a conviction.

    The lady on the phone today said that didnt matter, I should have mentioned it during interview.

    She said I am welcome to apply again as the job is going to re-advertised!

    Stoner
    Free Member

    She said I am welcome to apply again as the job is going to re-advertised!

    quality NHS jobsworthiness, right there.

    Sancho
    Free Member

    restless
    I got kicked out of the met police for the same thing.
    I was asked if I had any previous to which I said no.
    ( had been cautioned about twelve years previously )
    I said no as I thought under the rehabilitation of offenders act you do not need to declare any previuos convictions as they are considered spent after ten years.

    They said I had lied, but according to the law I am right, but according to those toss pots I am a liar.

    restless
    Free Member

    I got kicked out of the met police for the same thing

    It’s amazing isn’t it, all for a really old caution!

    I actually worked for the police in their control room when I got my caution and it didnt matter to anyone when I applied for another internal job a few months later.

    I can’t believe this had happened now tbh and I am really gutted. But in future I think I will tell interviewers about it there and then, whether they ask or not, just so it doesn’t happen again.

    I have been trying to get a new job for over 6mths now and was so happy to get this offer, now it has gone 😥

    hels
    Free Member

    I think you should appeal. You answered honestly all questions asked. I think the manager has gone way past what she is entitled to do here, and rather foolishly admitted to it. Speak to somebody in HR, somebody with authority not one of the stone hearted robots who does the admin.

    deluded
    Free Member

    Sancho,

    You don’t need to disclose spent convictions when applying for most jobs. Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 it’s unlawful for an employer to discriminate on the grounds of a spent conviction. However, some types of jobs are exempt from this Act – this means you have to disclose spent convictions as well as unspent ones. These jobs include posts connected to law enforcement, including the judiciary and the police.

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