Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • Plus fuels – worth it?
  • thomasthetankengine
    Free Member

    Talking about the premium versions of diesel/ unleaded. Cost about 15p per litre more. I ask as have been filling a from new van with premium diesel for last two years. Increasing life of engine for definite? Or just throwing money away. Any fuel experts on here? Ta.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    Not an expert, but a cynical type who works in marketing amongst other things.

    I say poppycock. There’s a few reasons for this:

    There are only a few refineries in the UK, whilst you might be buying in Esso it’s likely that the fuel comes from the same refinery as your local supermarket. (yadda yadda yadda addictives)

    Motor Manufacturers work incredibly hard to ensure their engines run on everything from the purest of pure lab made fuel for testing to diesel sold from a watering can on a dusty side street in the 3rd world.

    This is backed up by the remapping industry that says because of the above it’s more than safe to re-tune engines in the UK which removes some of their ability to run on back-street diesel and petrol.

    The Big Fuel Sellers, Esso, BP etc have HUGE marketing budgets, if it was even half way possible to sort of claim that cheap fuel (super market fuel) was in anyway damaging to engines they’d have done so by now, very publicly. They can only make very vague, non-committal claims about their own premium fuel over their standard.

    Equally, UK supermarkets who sell the cheapest fuel in the UK are some of the most bad-PR adverse businesses in the world, they wouldn’t sell fuel that was in any-way sub-standard through fear of bad press.

    The ‘dangers’ of cheap fuel have been circulating since the super markets first opened their petrol stations, nothing has even been said publicly by any of the fuel companies – but the rumours, no doubt started by the PR guys at Esso et al, still circulate today.

    Also, My Dad who works at a Oil Refinery in the middle east buys whatever fuel is nearest without a second thought.

    jairaj
    Full Member

    Don’t know about increasing the life of the engine but you do get more power and efficiency from the premium fuels.

    A test was preformed by one of the TV motoring shows I think 5th gear. Some of the fuels got 2-3 bhp more and they got more miles out of a tank of fuel. But the savings made where almost totally offset by the extra cost of the fuel. The show is probably around 10 years old now so no idea of that still applies to today’s fuels at today’s prices.

    I wonder if you are better off going for standard fuel and using the money saved to service the car me often. Change the oil sooner or something along those lines.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    nealglover
    Free Member

    I get 10-15% more mpg using the premium diesel.

    Solid 40mpg on normal diesel (measured over 18 months/ 80,000 miles)

    Moved to premium and now get 44-46mpg (measured over 6 months/ 30,000 miles.

    Same vehicle, same sort of 50/50 mixed driving.

    So pretty much cost neutral really (I don’t pay for fuel anyway) but no idea about engine life benefits (but I don’t pay for engines either 🙂 )

    jonba
    Free Member

    I once met the ex-operations manager of Exxon Fawley when he was running a training course on the oil and gas industry. He didn’t put premium fuels in any of his cars. There was a long and technical explaination which I’ve now forgotten. Something to do with not all octanes being equal and the standards being a minimum not a maximum level. It isn’t so much which refinery the the petrol comes from but where the crude came from in the first place.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    A test was preformed by one of the TV motoring shows I think 5th gear. Some of the fuels got 2-3 bhp more and they got more miles out of a tank of fuel. But the savings made where almost totally offset by the extra cost of the fuel. The show is probably around 10 years old now so no idea of that still applies to today’s fuels at today’s prices.

    Ah, I remember that test.

    As a recall to get the extra performance you needed a fancy-ish car, I think they tried a typical 2.0 repmobile and it did nothing, but in a Subaru WRX is made more power, something to do with it’s ability to change its fuelling on the fly more readily – but yeah, extra 2 or 3 BHP from a 240Bhp engine, but that was the old super unleaded, higher ron type fuel, most of the modern ones are sold as being cleaner.

    Imported Japanese cars run better on higher ron fuel, the ‘internet rumour’ was always the JDM versions of MR2, WRXs etc had ‘special’ higher tuned engines as standard because the Japanese don’t like foreigners or something ha ha. Truth is more mundane, Japanese Fuel has a higher ron as standard, 98 v 95 in the UK I think, the Imports were tuned to run on 98 so made a little extra power on super unleaded, but less than the official UK Japanese cars on standard fuel.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    Shell premium definitely works in my car, and the last 2 (all Alfas) and gave a useful increase in low-rev torque, smoother and also more MPG. It didn’t seem to do anything in my ex-wifes Toyota though.

    A mate is a petrol head and he and all his friend petrol heads all use Shell premium, but not any of the others as they reckon they don’t do anything. Other premiums have never worked for me either.

    B.A.Nana
    Free Member

    It’s quite a few years ago that I was in the industry, but a lot comes from the same oil terminal in that area and fill from the same storage in that terminal (as said above). Esso, Shell, BP, Mobile, Bayfords, CPL etc would all be queued up waiting to fill the same fuel at the same gantry. In those days, Esso, Shell, BP etc would have a dispenser each, at the side of each gantry, which would put a measured amount of their additive into their tanker.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    Having spoke to somone ar MIRA a few years ago who actually tested the fuel. Most fuel is from the same base stock with an additive pack. Shell vpower is the only one thats different base stock.

    the additive packs change throughout the year. You dont get the same fuel in winter as summer. The difference is the packs for the supermarkets are changed weekly with an emphasis on bulking out the fuel at low cost.

    I run v power. On normal fuel i get 8mpg. on vpower i get 10

    poah
    Free Member

    depends on the engine. for petrol all cars have to be able to run on 95 octane fuel but if you use super you get more power. fancy diesel has a higher cetane rating but I can’t tell the difference. what you will find is that the fancier fuels have more cleaning agents in them, so if you have an old engine then you could benefit from some usage. I used super UL in my old punto GT because the engine ran a lot better on it, wither there was any difference in mpg or power I don’t have a clue. I run my new car on standard diesel.

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    Oh, I thought this was going to be about Treks with chubby tyres.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    I run v power. On normal fuel i get 8mpg. on vpower i get 10

    In what?!

    AD
    Full Member

    Another anecdotal story. My old Subaru Forester S didn’t like supermarket fuel – basically the engine management light would come on if I filled up at the local Asda. Put in ‘normal’ fuel, the light went out again.
    It doesn’t seem to make any difference whatsoever to my 53 plate Cooper S or my V60 D4 (in fairness the D4 is a company car and we’re not allowed to use ‘super’ fuels in those!).
    As above I suspect it makes a difference for some cars and not others.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    BMW M5 V10 or a motorbike?

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    You’ll only get more power from higher octane petrol if your car has the appropriate compression ratio/ignition timing etc to take advantage of it. You want the lowest octane rating before you get detonation for most power. Higher octane make the fuel harder to burn which will reduce power.
    Modern cars have knock sensors to detect detonation and will retard the ignition timing away from the default setting till the detonation stops. Not many cars can advance the ignition away from the default setting to take advantage of higher octane fuels.

    slowoldgit
    Free Member

    In a boring ordinary family saloon with a petrol engine I tried 98 octane out of curiosity, and have mostly stuck with it since. The car is mainly driven in grandad mode. I get an improvement in mileage that about covers the increased cost while cruising a little faster. On the rare occasion that I actually overtake something the response seems better. And I get there slightly quicker at the same cost

    I posted a similar question on here some time ago. On of the responders said that, in a modern petrol engine, the electrics constantly adjust the timing to a point just short of knocking. So the petrol engine gets the most out of the fuel that you put in it. There’s a sticker on the filler cap telling me that mine likes 95-98 ISTR.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    Even if the cost of motoring is neutral by distance because of the increase of cost of the fuel it sound like if less fuel is used then that would be less emissions for the same cost. That would be enough to make me switch if it were true

    ThePinkster
    Full Member

    My bro-in-law was very high up in a very large oil producer (until he retired a couple of years ago)and he always said it wasn’t worth the extra paying for branded fuels.

    The biggest impact is how and where you drive.

    Don’t know if that counts for anything.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Even if the cost of motoring is neutral by distance because of the increase of cost of the fuel it sound like if less fuel is used then that would be less emissions for the same cost. That would be enough to make me switch if it were true

    Good point.

    In the last 6 months (30,000 miles) using Premium diesel, I have used 3026 litres.
    Previous six months (30,000 miles) on standard diesel I used 3408 litres.

    A saving of 382 litres.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    rx8 R3, Normally driven sideways 🙂

    TheFlyingOx
    Full Member

    rx8 R3, Normally driven sideways

    Jesus, man! Are you out of your mind admitting to that? This is STW. Anything more hurried than waiting your turn to overtake will place you somewhere between tandem rider and stick-man on the STW wall chart of social pariahs.

    retro83
    Free Member

    simondbarnes – Member
    Oh, I thought this was going to be about Treks with chubby tyres.

    I thought it was going to be about coal.

    northernmatt
    Full Member

    I got a Clio 172 as a runaround and on standard unleaded it was doing 32mpg, on super unleaded it gets 35mpg. Plus it feels like it goes a bit faster.

    Moar RONs makes bigger explosions yeah?

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    When I’ve tried it I got better mpg

    BigJohn
    Full Member

    We have a BMW 2 litre petrol. I often used the premium pump until one day after Mrs BigJohn had filled up I felt the car was running really nicely. More so than usual. I asked where she had gone. “Asda”. 😳

    eyestwice
    Free Member

    rx8 R3, Normally driven sideways

    JDM RX8 here. I use V-Power as explained above for imports. And I drive it hard.

    Still get 20-ish to a gallon. So I think I’ll pass up on the offer if you ever ask me to come for a drive with you 😀

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    No idea on mpg but our weekend car prefers the fancy stuff.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    DM RX8 here. I use V-Power as explained above for imports. And I drive it hard.

    Still get 20-ish to a gallon. So I think I’ll pass up on the offer if you ever ask me to come for a drive with you

    did a 400 mile round trip the other week to wales. Managed 17mpg!! i was ecstatic. Infact i pulled over at 200 miles and turned it off and on again as i thought the needle was stuck on the fuel gauge. 🙂

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    And they wonder why the RX8 fell out of favour when petrol hit £1 a litre.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    My Alfa 156 2 litres would average about 330 miles out of a tank, but 380 on shell v-power. repeatdly got that difference, plus the engine was better at lower revs.

    Mister-P
    Free Member

    I assumed andybrad was a drift car racer.

    cardo
    Full Member

    I’ve run my (122K) 09 Caddy on it and the engine is really smooth, drivable from low revs and very little smoke..
    had the same with our old P plate A4 (263K) , it loved it. I suspect it’s the fact the internals of the engine are cleaner which makes the whole combustion process easier.
    I’m a fan.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    My friend Grant is a chemical engineer for BP. He uses Shell V-power. He said that in their own testing, V-power was shown to burn cleaner leading to less carbon buildup inside the engine.

    I’ve had my 330i Touring for 11years and have always ran it on v-power. Recently had a misfire on the engine which turned out to be an injector (106k miles) but decided to strip the throttle body and inlet as I was told it’s a common problem for them to coke. I kid you not, it was clean as a whisle and totally functional.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    I use Shell V power on the best car but it’s recommended for 98-99RON. On the 9 yr old run-about its the cheapest supermarket petrol.

    Inbred456
    Free Member

    I work in the oil and gas industry. I was very sceptical about the claims. Spoke to an engineer for shell. Fuel came up as a topic. I raised it. He was adamant about the claims. The additives are mixed in the tankers when the fuel is added from the refinery. It’s not just about the mpg and extra power. It’s about the lubrication for the fuel system. The detergents to keep the injectors clean etc. I have used V power or BP ultimate ever since. What difference over a week is it, a bottle of wine. I do know I filled up my perfectly working Mk3 Mondeo one week with a tank full from Murco and it never ran properly since that fill up. Eventually I scrapped it with a knackered pump and injectors! Coincidence who knows. I will never ever use cheap fuel again from a supermarket or so called budget garage.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    I only use BP ultimate as the company I work for has requested that we use it (and they are paying)

    They are a massive company with a huge fleet and that’s the decision they have made. Presumably based on research of some sort.

    But as I’ve measured, it’s cost neutral anyway, so any other, engine life type, benefits are free.

    BigEaredBiker
    Free Member

    My wifes old Mini Cooper S used to benefit from the super petrol, not by much; I believe it had a knock sensor. In the V6 MG ZT I drove at the time it made no difference to performance or economy.

    In the diesel pug 407 I now have the super diesel sees it get a few more mpg. I once got over 700 miles out of a full tank – practically all motorway miles. 650 is about the best I’ve ever had on normal diesel for the same kind of driving.

    Ben_H
    Full Member

    I had a supercharger conversion fitted to my old Golf R32, which I later sold.

    I was advised by the tuner to only ever use Shell V-Power, which I duly did. The next owner took to using Tesco’s “Momentum” high octane fuel.

    Within about 2 months and 2,000 miles of him buying it from me, the engine developed a misfire and blue smoke in gentle driving. This was traced to damage to one of the pistons, which in the opinion of the tuner (to whom the car was returned for inspection / fixing) was due to poor quality fuel.

    “Fortunately”, the head and block survived without damage – although in replacing all 6 pistons, it made sense to also renew the timing chain and clutch…resulting in a £5k bill.

    Of course, this is an example of an aftermarket forced induction conversion. However, based on this, I’d recommend that anyone should use high quality (i.e. not supermarket) fuel for a highly modified a car!

    patagonian
    Free Member

    I’m not going to claim that premium gives you more power or better economy because I simply can’t prove it but I will say that it is different.
    My John Cooper Works Mini would always backfire when changing down if I used premium (oh that was so much fun!), the one exception was Tesco Momentum which achieves its octane rating by blending with bio ethanol.

    greentricky
    Free Member

    I use premium every forth or fifth tank for a clean

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)

The topic ‘Plus fuels – worth it?’ is closed to new replies.