i'm looking at a sealed electric boiler system installed (in a very small house), but have been somewhat shocked to get a quote for 3.8k plus vat – i can get the same spec central heating pack myself for 750quid inclusive of vat.

i realise that it'll have to be wired in by an electrician, but can anyone tell me how hard it is to actually install such a system (using plastic pipes and compression fittings)?

is it within the realms of a competent DIY'er?

putting it is is a doddle. The hard part is taking up whatever floors etc to route the pipework and replacing them. I have put in a full system from scratch in a 2 up 2 down in a weekend (albeit two of us and working late nights etc). Plastic pipework makes it much easier too.

C

sounds like a reasonable price to me. It will need an electrician, and a plumber to fit it. You could probably do the plumbing if you are half decent at DIY, but a plumber WILL do a better job. Definitely get an electrician to wire it up though.

A few nights in a week using garden hoses.
Stick with copper pipes

I I would always use copper and plumbing is fairly straightforward – just take your time over it. It will take you 3 times as long as a pro to do it. Plumbers are notorious for wreaking floors tho ripping up boards.

How much is your time worth?

You'd still need to get the gas system tested by a Gas Safe engineer.

Any reason why you're looking at electric?

Electric system will be more expensive that a gas system. They do have advantages over gas though.

It's hard to say whether the price is good or not based upon what you've said. All I can suggest is getting several quotes for the same system.

Using plastic pipes is (imo) the better choice over copper. Tradesmen don't like using plastic because it nullifies their training. A good plumber will be able install copper pipe beautifully but it really is a redundant material.

Air sourced heat pump?

If going electric, that's what you should be having if possible

I'd go for plastic. Only downside is you can't detect it with a pipe locator before drilling. But then you know where you put it in the first place, and I've never seen a home DIYer use a pipe locator 🙂

We use a miniaturised version of the JG speedfit fittings at work, (5mm diameter) if they are good for 180PSI of air then I'm sure they can cope with 20psi of water (or whatever boilers run at).

The other argument for plastic pipes is that its safer as it doesn't conduct electricity, or provide a path to earth if you are touching a radiator whilst poking about in the back of your TV 🙂

I've used copper and plastic, yes the copper is easy, but it still takes longer, and there is the fire/burn risk with using a torch to heat the joints. Not good if you are working in all the crap normally found below your dry wooden floors…

I use these to identify plastic pipe runs;
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Accessories_Index/Necessities~Cable_Protection/index.html

Although I agree with spooky about DIYers and pipe detectors.

Plastic with the bare minimum of fittings sounds ok, perhaps if it were a distribution manifold with the only joins being accessible – not hidden under floors etc. The thought of sealing plastic fittings with water at 1.5 bar & at 60 – 70c into the wall would worry me. Nitrile / Viton 'O' rings don't last forever. A plumber I knew said its movement that causes plastic fittings to leak, the pipes have to be secured either side of the joint. Sounds logical.
Personally, I'd go with traditional copper.

You used to be able to get normal looking radiators with a small boiler built into them. (Not those hideous old oil filled things). Like THESE I looked at fitting them in a flat I had years ago. It was very expensive if I remember rightly.

thanks for the replies.

the installation is dead simple i would say, wood construction house with cellar underneath so everything is very easy to get to with regards to running pipes. but the pipes are not what concerns me, its flushing it through, testing of the system and things like adjusting mains water pressure if needed.

electric because no gas and no outside space for oil.

air source also no because of wood construction (internal noise issues) and close proximity to neighbours (noisy for them).

Plumbers are notorious for wreaking floors tho ripping up boards.

i think you may be confusing us with electricians

bigeyed beans – a plague on both your houses! Sparky or plumber – a sensible householder asks what boards they want up and either does them themselves or gets a chippy to do them.

Electricians AND plumbers are vandals!!!

😆

TJ not sure how sensible that approach is – much better to find a good tradesman that you have confidence in then have enough faith to let him get on with what he knows best – you won't get a good job from anyone if you insist on getting involved or watching like a hawk

bigeyedbeans – I am being facetious really but I have seen both sparks and plumbers totally destroy sound floors in gaining access and if i was using one now I'd simply ask them which boards they wanted moved and I would have them moved and prepared for when they came to do the job.

Just looked a quote I did in some flats in London that was to remove an existing heated thermal store, replace it with an unvented cylinder (good quality Oso unit) and 2 electric boilers connected together, then to the existing heating system. System was flushed etc all thoroughly but I did not wire the units up as there was a lot of work (new 100A fuse board required).
Also needed intrimiscent vents in the door which are expensive, and a fair bit of faffing to get the unvented cylinder discharge out.

I was around 3.5 + VAT so think 3.8 is not too far away with the addition of the rest of the heating system.

And nothing against plastic pipe, in fact prefer it to copper as too many issues with pin holing, and other problems. The rate of failure with plastic joints is far less than that with copper. Also you need less joints so again smaller risk. Some of the plastic pipes have aluminuim in them so they are traceable. I personally use Unipie which is a crimped joint and have only had 2 failures in 6 years of using it, also is white, contains aluminuim so stays straight. Plastic pipes can be drilled through joists, keepeing the strength in the joist and minimising the risk of nailing a pipe. It has far less heat loss through it, and is more resistant to frost damage.

So think price is reasonable, but if you wanted you could do it yourself, except for the wiring. Sadly too far from me to guide you through any problems, but willing to help via phone / mail if you want.

timATj-twren.eclipse.co.uk

yeah my money's still on the sparky TJ – check for a trail of wire cuttings and sawdust leading from the scene 🙂

thanks bear, if its ok i'll drop you a line tomorrow with a few questions i have.

no problems. at work during day, paperwork (internet!) in evenings

whereabouts are you in the UK? I can recommend the bod who put in our central heating (fired by wood burner) – qualified, certified electrician who also happens to be a dab plumber too (no Gas systems though). Something like 20+ years experience and comes in at reasonable cost too – we had him on a decent day rate and all parts at cost straight from the suppliers. I think for all fitting, rads, pump and materials he came in at something like £2K odd…

We're in Kent / Sussex.

whereabouts are you in the UK?

cornwall.

I installed my own gas central heating system. Much better job than a plumber could do without pricing themselves out of work. Its easy enough if your a good DIY'er, have half a brain and are more practical than academic… 😛

I installed the system with 22mm headers and 15mm branches all in copper, rather than the plastic or microbore systems most plumbers try to justify too. I'm a maintenance engineer by trade, and I work with pnumatics a lot, enough to know that speed fittings are not infalable and fail at a good rate, especially when they are a few years old and the seals, nitrile or viton, can go brittle and fail, or the fittings just weep.

Install it yourself, and if your no electritian, get one in to verify the instilation before you turn it on. Youll save a fortune.

Like copper never fails!?

I'd use plastic to mitigate the number of joints, formed bends, heat loss, corrosion, noise and to reduce tye time for installation.

Many years ago I spent ages doing my house in copper and only chose this because plastic 3 times the price. I used 28mm on the flow and return on the primary loop. The manufacturer's installation instructions insisted on it. I have seen loads of boilers with 28-22mm reducers. Plumbers hardly ever use 28mm because it's a lot more expensive than 22mm. And they use plastic now because it is superior and saves then a heap of time on the installation.

Spongebob – yup, see loads of undersized pipework. Really gets on my nerves as you lose installtions on price rather than the quality. Regularly use 28mm and fairly often 35mm, but i'm fortunate in that I work mainly on larger domestic installations in the country.