The graph also ignores everything apart from income tax of course – guess who a rise in VAT impacts on the most?

…not to mention rises in fuel, alcohol and tobacco duty. (Which as we all know successive governments of both flavours have so dilligently reinvested in infrastructrure/road safety substance misuse treatment and healthcare/palliative care for those that could be seen as needing, but also potentially paying a lot of extra duty towards it. 👿 )

JY +1 -Guido Fawkes seems just like the Monbiot of the right, except he hides behind a pseudonym and a cartoony picture. I am sure zulu would be just as gracious in pointing out the potential bias in referencing Monbiot too. 😀

Z-11 is always methodical in posting his quotes/graphs/whatever from ‘news’ sources you wouldn’t rely on to tell you if it was night or day. But… He’s consistent. What’s scary is that he believes this tripe enough to want to pass on their wisdom.

And then goes on to slag off the BBC. You couldn’t make it up. Oh…. Actually …. 😆

when the top rate has been cut – can I see the working for that please

Highest rate of income tax under labour = 40p
Current rate under Tories = 50p
Proposed rate after the EVIL TORY tax cut = 45p

So, the top earners are still paying more (as a %age) than they ever were under Labour, True?

Personal allowance 2009-10 under Labour: £6,475
Personal allowance 2013-14 under Tories: £9,440

So, the poor are still paying less tax under the Tories, True?

Thatcher reduced spending from 45% of GDP to 35%

But how much did GBP increase over and above inflation in that time? so, in real terms, i.e.. accounting for inflation, did Thatcher increase or cut government spending?

Tell you what – one quick example: did the number of Doctors increase or decrease under Thatcher?

evidence from a right wing polemicist…
‘news’ sources you wouldn’t rely on to tell you if it was night or day…
notoriously independent and fair journalist…

You do understand the concept of ad hominem don’t you – now, if he’s wrong, fair enough, but you lefties seem to be really hung up on dismissing evidence by attacking the source, rather than the data – I suppose thats why you’ve all got into such a twisted knot of lies and confusion with Anthropogenic global warming eh 🙄

alcohol and tobacco duty

So, the worst allegation you can make is that the EVIL TORY taxes will reduce consumption of harmful substances amongst those who are, proportionately, worst affected by them – and this is a bad thing?

Highest rate of income tax under labour = 40p
Current rate under Tories = 50p
Proposed rate after the EVIL TORY tax cut = 45p

So, the top earners are still paying more (as a %age) than they ever were under Labour, True?

Given the tax rate was introduced by labour and has been cut by the Tories I think even Malcom tucker would have difficulty spinning that one. I admire your cheek though for presenting it thus

Personal allowance 2009-10 under Labour: £6,475
Personal allowance 2013-14 under Tories: £9,440

So, the poor are still paying less tax under the Tories, True?

Its a coalition govt and could you remind us which parties policies this was an who oppose a mansion tax
Its quite funny reading tbh

You do understand the concept of ad hominem don’t you

Wow its cheek central Its the boy who cried wolf all over again

– now, if he’s wrong, fair enough,

Still waiting for your source – you mean you have not checked it before posting it up
PS it is before the “tax cut” that you present as a Tory tax hike so the tables are now out of date 😉

but you lefties seem to be really hung up on dismissing evidence by attacking the source, rather than the data

I asked you for the data but you failed to present it 🙄

–

I suppose thats why you’ve all got into such a twisted knot of lies and confusion with Anthropogenic global warming eh

Is that an ad hominem or just a straw man [ is it just lefties who talk of AGW?] You are getting faster at contradicting yourself these days in your desperate attempt to get a reaction

Bless you and Merry christmas

have a hug from me but no reach round

You miss TJ and ernie more than me dont you

It would be interesting to know how much of this you actually believe but really its quite a hard sell to represent the Tories as the high tax for the rich low tax for the poor party. About as hard as arguing thatcher was a big fan of large govt and public sector growth but you seem to be managing that as well

Your quite funny. it shows that a reasonably bright person can argue just about anything whether it is true or false or whether they believe it

Deviant. That is a separate point. My question was which government cut spending in real or nominal terms. Thatcher did not. I am making the same point as Ernie, the difference between political rhetoric and economic reality is very obvious. Thatcher despite all,her rhetoric, never actually cut spending and surprise, surprise made especially large increases in health and welfare. So much for the Tory accusations thrown about on this thread!

And even more surprising are the trends in government spending between republicans and democrats in the US (google Reagans spending history). Odd world we live in. Oh and Keynes did not advocate governments running budget deficits despite what “Keynesians” like to pretend.

This thread has proved my initial point. It’s descended into tribal squabbling about who pays which taxes, when and how much.

None of this is relevant. The fact is that the former chief whip didn’t really do anything wrong, and none of you biased lot seem remotely bothered that he’s lost his job.

The fact is that the former chief whip didn’t really do anything wrong

Didn’t he?

Joe – Member

The fact is that the former chief whip didn’t really do anything wrong

According to “the former chief whip” he swore at police officers and failed to show them respect.

You can’t see anything wrong in that ?

It’s descended into tribal squabbling

Have you forgotten your non tribal OP

I think the most interesting thing about the whole saga is how it shoes how sick the anti-Tory mob are. They’re also always the first to talk about discrimination or classism, yet they have shown their hands are actually the dirtiest.

Perhaps you just did not set the tone well enough for a non tribal debate?
I means it is clear you are trying to be neutral but you dont quite pull it off

As others note it was not a left wing conspiracy it had nothing to do with the left at all

swore at police officers

Not illegal

and failed to show them respect.

Not illegal

You can’t see anything wrong in that ?

Well, you dind’t see anything wrong with Ken fiddling his taxes did you Ernie, so I guess we’re all square 😐

it is before the “tax cut” that you present as a Tory tax hike so the tables are now out of date

Might want to check your calendar Junky – its not April 2013 yet, so the table is very much not out of date 😆

Well, you dind’t see anything wrong with Ken fiddling his taxes, so I guess we’re all square

Absolutely. I reckon swearing at coppers is well cool.

However Andrew Mitchell doesn’t agree with me and claims that he shouldn’t have sworn at the police and shown them a lack of respect.

So you really ought to address your comments at Andrew Mitchell Z-11, not me.

Is anyone not concerned that police officers in active service have used their position to push a political agenda?

The former chief whip has admitted swearing at the police which isn’t a high point for him, but in their official log the police officers have created a deliberate false impression (lies for a better word) to force a government official from office. This has been apparently been backed up by another lie in an e-mail from an officer in active service pretending to be from a member of the public at the scene, who was no where near at the time of the incident.

So what else would these officers be willing to lie about to get the right result for them? Bit of a troll the last statement, but how would a person without the power and privilege of a tory whip defend themselves against a false accusation from a serving police officer.

The tables were created before the tax cut was announced but you knew that because you checked the source right – it was not even that funny as a reply

In 2012-13 all taxpayers are liable on taxable income other than savings and dividend income at the basic rate of 20 per cent on the first £34,370, 40 per cent over the basic rate limit of £34,370 and 50 per cent over the higher rate limit of £150,000. Dividend
income is charged at 10 per cent up to the basic rate limit of £34,370, 32.5 per cent above £34,370 and 42.5 per cent above £150,000. Savings income is charged at 10 per cent up to the starting rate limit on the first £2,710, at 20 per cent up to £34,370, 40 per
cent above £34,370 and 50 per cent above £150,000.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-statistics/table2-5.pdf

As you noticed the tories [in a coalition govt] cut the tax whilst raising the tax whilst reducing the burden on the rich to keep them here whilst taxing them more to save us money [ your telegraph link] or sumfink.

Actually start debating or scribble alone – your call But i really cannot be arsed and you have no one left to play with

Is anyone not concerned that police officers in active service have used their position to push a political agenda?

Very much so. There is something particularly sinister about police officers conspiring to destroy the political career of an elected politician, especially through the use of false witnesses and lies.

However the primary aim of this thread appears to be to claim that it was all some sort of left-wing anti-Tory conspiracy (despite the fact that the OP has provided no evidence – are the two who have been arrested left-wingers ?) so understandably the thread has tended to focus on that angle.

I dont think anyone thinks that what the plod have done is a good idea or noble

its seems clear he has been done up like a kipper by some bent coppers for political reasons or other unknown reason
Its is not good PR for the plod and wont be the first time or the last ime some serving officers lie for their own reasons.

That said as ernie notes [ welcome back] the attempt to portray this as a left wing conspiracy is , frankly, ludicrous.

I’m firmly anti-tory, I believe that they should be hunted with dogs.. but I still seem to have come out of this smelling of roses..

ace 😀

That MP looks a nasty piece of work

You should see the coppers.

I’m with Hora, he’s a toffee nosed Tory git who treats the public like something that he’s stepped in, in a cash strapped public park that has lost it’s ranger due to cuts.