http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/if-these-extraordinarily-powerful-images-of-a-dead-syrian-child-washed-up-on-a-beach-dont-change-europes-attitude-to-refugees-what-will-10482757.html

Hope the link works….

Has anyone seen this. My Son was 2 last week.

I feel like I need to do something..any ideas?

Matt

er don’t let him get on a boat?

You know what, I just don’t know, and believe me when I say I’ve seen the same pics and asked myself the same question.

What I do feel is that there seems to be an attitude change from “keep them foreigners out of our country” to “these people need help, lets help them”.

We need to address the problem at source, which is of course the media printing sensationalist bullshit with impunity. Headline on one of the tabloids yesterday (The Express? Maybe) was, paraphrasing, “UK population set to rise by 2.1bn due to immigration.”

Not saying “immigrants” when we mean “refugees” might be a nice gentle starting point.

There will be some charities or other organisations in your local area who will be helping people already here. You can help them either financially or by volunteering.

Check http://www.refugee-action.org.uk/ for stuff near you.

Up here in Glasgow we have things like http://sdv.org.uk/ where you can donate or volunteer to personally help detainees.

You know what, I just don’t know, and believe me when I say I’ve seen the same pics and asked myself the same question.

What I do feel is that there seems to be an attitude change from “keep them foreigners out of our country” to “these people need help, lets help them”.

This basically.
However, the cause of this mass exodus from the middle east needs to be addressed, otherwise this will be going on for the next 20 years…

I’m probably going to get blasted BUT when we’ve sorted our own crap out in this country first – homelessness, poverty, etc then we can worry about the rest.
When we have ex-servicemen on the streets unable to eat, millions being given in aid that never reaches anywhere but foodbanks running dry here, etc how about the governments kicking the other up the arse instead of just paying them off….

I’m not saying they don’t need help – but when we aren’t helping our own the priorities are massivley screwed

I’m probably going to get blasted BUT when we’ve sorted our own crap out in this country first – homelessness, poverty, etc then we can worry about the rest.
When we have ex-servicemen on the streets unable to eat, millions being given in aid that never reaches anywhere but foodbanks running dry here, etc how about the governments kicking the other up the arse instead of just paying them off….

I’m not saying they don’t need help – but when we aren’t helping our own the priorities are massivley screwed

I kind of agree – and think we should start with the overseas aid budget – quite why we are giving millions to India, a country which has a space program is beyond me…

I’m not saying they don’t need help – but when we aren’t helping our own the priorities are massivley screwed

Well ‘our own’ aren’t trying to escape a war torn country.

Many of “Our Own” are in the state they are in because they fought to free war torn countries and in doing so got injured, got let go and then got let down by the very government that sent them there.
Ever heard the phrase “charity begins at home”?

I’m probably going to get blasted BUT when we’ve sorted our own crap out in this country first

IMO That is just an excuse to do nothing. Our own country will never be problem free, no matter how much money you throw at it. Doesn’t stop us helping others in the mean time.

Plus we have a moral responsibility as our previous government created a lot of instability in the ME, then just buggered off home saying ‘job done’. We are reaping what we sowed.

horrific pic (opened during lunch without reading the link text)

but…

From what I can see even if the UK had an open door policy to every refugee/migrant who turned up on its shores, that little child would still be dead

Unless you send over a big boat thats seaworthy to collect everyone, then this unfortunately is the reality whilst people are desperate to leave these countries

But with the kids issue. If in the UK… you have problems, ok. .but your kids will still have access to health care and schooling. You have to really really really really **** up for your kids to be left hanging. But this Boy was pretty much dead the moment he was born his parents probably tried everything for him.
….
Somehow I reckon we caused it by bombing Syria without a plan just to keep the US happyish…
we probably never really wanted to we just did it.
…..
Ok we don’t really appreciate our old service men but they decide to do what they do; and have enough info
to understand that no-onecares afterwards.
….
This is pretty much the worst thing I have ever seen.

“Charity begins at home, but should not end there.”

Interesting how often people chop the second part off.

hammyuk – Member
Ever heard the phrase “charity begins at home”?

Yes, it’s a phrase, not a universal law.

Waiting for the issues you refer to to be sorted…might never happen.

The numbers of folk you refer to are tiny in comparison and most have it way better than these refugees.

hammyuk – Member
I’m probably going to get blasted BUT when we’ve sorted our own crap out in this country first – homelessness, poverty, etc then we can worry about the rest.
When we have ex-servicemen on the streets unable to eat, millions being given in aid that never reaches anywhere but foodbanks running dry here, etc how about the governments kicking the other up the arse instead of just paying them off….

I’m not saying they don’t need help – but when we aren’t helping our own the priorities are massivley screwed

You have a point 😕

I have a similarish looking boy to the one in the photo. Whether or not it make it more poignant I don’t know, but this is certainly one of the most shocking images I’ve seen.

While the media in England are pretty anti-immigration at the moment, I do sit near hammyuk’s point of view. There are homeless and starving in this country and we don’t have the resources to look after them. Accepting refugees is simply putting a plaster on a massive wound. We need to be addressing the issues which make these people risk their family’s safety to flee to the UK.

I wish I had the answers.

Anyone else get the feeling that all this is the start of the end of days or WW3? all the unrest in the middle east, in the areas formly known as iraq and syria and with all the the refugees heading this way, it’s like the start of hollywood disaster blockbuster.

edit: just looked at the picture, oh little dude sweet dreams my little pal. I agree with the paper people should see pictures like that more often.

‘our own’ equals human beings to me. What difference does it make where you happen to be born? We are giving people overseas aid because they need it and some will die without it. Yes there are problems here but they are pretty small in world terms and we have a welfare state and excellent health service that is picking up most of the pieces. The fact that a few fall through the gaps isn’t an excuse to do nothing to help others

Why did I look at that mid surgery.
Now I’m going to have to blame hayfever or something 🙁

DrP

‘our own’ equals human beings to me. What difference does it make where you happen to be born?

Exactly.

What is this attitude that unless we can make everything perfect in one fell swoop then do nothing? An excuse to do nothing.

Just help to make one person’s life a little more tolerable. If not a refugee, then yes a homeless person, or someone who is struggling day to day.

We DO have the resources to help them. Look at the bikes we ride, the cars we drive, the phones we ‘must have’.

Not an excuse to do nothing Footflaps – BUT how are we in a position to be dishing out £billions to others when we can’t find the funds to help those here?
None of us expect this country to be problem free – the arseholes in Westminster will always see to that however there is no excuse for having people on the streets here who have lost everything including body parts, others giving away food to foodbanks so others can eat because their wages don’t cover the basic essentials, families being put into ridiculously overpriced private accommodation/bedsits/hotels because there is no more housing stock – the housing stock that is full. The housing stock that has overseas migrants and refugees being leapfrogged to the top of the list over those here.
That isn’t acceptable and certainly wouldn’t happen anywhere else in the world.
Thats how stupid this country has become – I’ll give you an example:
Having sat in a branch of a high street bank a number of years ago being told I couldn’t have a bank account because I had no credit history – in other words I’d never owed anyone a penny, never borrowed, never loaned.
To add to that we’d been told we were not eligible for Tax credits either due to always being self employed after being medically discharged out of the Forces without anything.
To then be insulted by the table next to me whose interpreter had a letter from the council stating that the bank WILL open an account in their name so their housing benefit, child tax credit and “working” tax credit could be paid into it. That said account WILL have a £500 overdraft to ensure they had access to funds whilst their application was going through for a council house.
Their temporary address was the local Raddison hotel and the bank would be advised of their new council house’s address within 7 days.
Just so its clear – I have no issues with a genuine refugee, anyone coming here to genuinely work hard, pay tax, etc.
However when this family were neither of the above but had moved here from India so they could be near their son, did not have jobs and were not planning on getting one until they had decided IF they liked it in london – too right I got arsey over it!

hammyuk – Member
The housing stock that has overseas migrants and refugees being leapfrogged to the top of the list over those here.

Oh dear…I stopped reading at this point.

Is that a cut and paste from the daily mail? We can afford billions on overseas aid. Just because you once saw someone on benefits with an iPhone doesn’t mean we should be letting children die.

We tend to see too much of the 20-40yr old male “economic migrants” on the rampage in the media, and not enough of the heart-breaking back stories from images like this one. He reminds me of my little grandson when he’s fallen asleep playing. But neither he nor his little brothers and sisters are going to wake up, are they? Kids should not be dying terrified and alone because Europe (including the UK) cannot see beyond begrudging benefit payments to a few less deserving cases. I’m at a loss to know what to do to help; but like the OP, I need to do something.

someone else has said what I was thinking, who are the “our own” we must help first?

What does that even mean? I despair at this recent human obsession with nationhood, what possible good can come from dividing people by the random chance of birth location. Its no better than skin colour or religion. Judge people on their actions, not who they are.

I assume its the image I’ve seen on facebook, I can’t look again.

I think comparing the problems we have in the UK to those depicted in those pictures is a tad tasteless. Every child in the UK has access to education and healthcare, only a tiny, tiny minority would consider boarding a knackered old boat to another country.

The long term answer to so fix the cause of the problem and remove the reason that people want/need to leave. The short term answer is as difficult, how do we help millions of peoples whose home land is so messed up that they will board an boat to an unknown country with nothing to their name and a very real chance they’ll die on the way?

I still really don’t know.

Edit.

The housing stock that has overseas migrants and refugees being leapfrogged to the top of the list over those here.

Any evidence behind this comment bar “I read it in the Daily Mail so it must be true”?

And

I have no issues with a genuine refugee, anyone coming here to genuinely work hard, pay tax, etc.

I think you need to understand the difference between a refugee and an economic migrant. You seem to have said you have no problem with one and then described the other.

To get back on topic, another thought for the OP. Locally we have a couple of community bike workshops who take in donated bikes, parts etc, spruce them up and give them to detainees or refugees. Some also welcome volunteers if you’re handy with a spanner.

Feeagent has made some good points. This is only the tip of the iceberg it will get worse.

Who in the UK government has any answers? … nobody … not our problem … but it is!

We… the ‘United Kingdom’ should want to make it our problem and solve it!

To get back on topic, another thought for the OP. Locally we have a couple of community bike workshops who take in donated bikes, parts etc, spruce them up and give them to detainees or refugees. Some also welcome volunteers if you’re handy with a spanner.

Without wanting to sound mean, how will this be of any benefit? I know its well intentioned but do these detainees and refugees need bikes?

Without wanting to sound mean, how will this be of any benefit? I know its well intentioned but do these detainees and refugees need bikes?

It’s free transport, or toys for the kids, as well as a point of contact with the community. One here in Glasgow operates in conjunction with a drop-in centre.

the difference between a refugee and an economic migrant

What difference? One might die early from war, the other dies early from a lack of health care and clean drinking water.

Without wanting to sound mean, how will this be of any benefit? I know its well intentioned but do these detainees and refugees need bikes?
It’s free transport, or toys for the kids, as well as a point of contact with the community. One here in Glasgow operates in conjunction with a drop-in centre.

they have nothing and if the rest of you are like me then your house is full of crap you dont need and/or want. bike parts are just an example. if i was setting up a new life in a strange country with nothing i would really appreciate a bike

There are homeless and starving in this country and we don’t have the resources to look after them.

Sure we do, many times over.

We just spunk it on buying new nuclear submarines and other rubbish instead.

Any suggestion that the 5th richest country in the world* can’t afford to provide basic food and shelter for all its citizens and many more besides is so far beyond ridiculous I don’t know what to say.

*or is it 6th now? Whatever.

i cant begin to imagine what it must be like getting on one of those boats, trying to settle and reassure your children, knowing how dangerous and uncertain the journey is going to be but knowing also that to stay is more dangerous and hopeless for them 😥

What difference? One might die early from war, the other dies early from a lack of health care and clean drinking water.

A quick Google reveals:
Refugee – a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

Economic Migrant – a person who travels from one country or area to another in order to improve their standard of living.

Migrant Worker – a person who moves from place to place to get work.

We are dealing with mainly refugee’s here, they are escaping a war torn country. There are undoubtedly some economic migrants and some migrant workers too. What they are not (well, not in any numbers anyway) are people coming to “sponge our benefits” or any other such Daily Mail phrase. These people are moving to make a better life for them and their children. And we are attacking them for doing so. It’s disgusting frankly.

would it be possible to call for a cross party debate on the issue??
anyone an expert on this?

I’m probably going to get blasted BUT when we’ve sorted our own crap out in this country first – homelessness, poverty, etc then we can worry about the rest.

Yep, when we’ve sorted out the families fleeing barrel bombs, or from ISIS sadists, in this country, then we can help the Syrians.

Right. Sorted.

Now – about answering the OP’s point?

That link made me cry.

Goes alongside Cameron just announcing he doesn’t want to officially reach out and take in more people fleeing bad places. Sorry, but he’s a ****. That’s what you get when you vote Tory….