Our eldest daughter has recently become a vegan, which is fine by us so long as she gets a balanced diet. My problem is I don’t understand the whole concept, why can’t she have honey? Free range farm eggs what’s wrong with eating them? Surely if a food stuff is harvested ethically that’s OK right?
I’m confused by it all, please help . . .
Also is she allowed to sit on our leather sofas? (Ok that ones a joke)

Cheers

Don’t put her onion bhajis on the same plate as the chicken wings.

It’s simple, you just avoid eating anything that casts a shadow

Like any belief system, it only makes sense to the converted 😉

Also is she allowed to sit on our leather sofas? (Ok that ones a joke)

Not if she’s serious!

[Quote]Surely if a food stuff is harvested ethically that’s OK right?[/Quote]

It’s down to animal rights and welfare, iirc getting the honey stresses out the bees, and dairy cows die if they aren’t milked, sheep are bred for their wool and get into trouble if they’re not clipped.

I view a lot of it as almost a form of reverse ludditeism*, as to make up for the lack of leather/wool they tend to use synthetic fibres/materials made from oil, which seem to be less repairable/durable than good old fashioned wool/leather.

*My view may be clouded by the only vegan I knew for any length of time using it as a front for anorexia 🙁

Aracer, norhhwind I’ve tried those gags they didn’t go down very well with her . . .

😳

Avoid anything that involves animals or their exploitation . Chickens don’t chose to lay eggs for consumption cows don’t consent to being enslaved and manipulated to provide constant milk bees had big plans for that honey they worked to create.
You are a natural being in a natural world with that comes responsibilities one of which is not to exploit other creatures for your own pleasure or advantage .
Easy to see what is required by a vegan even if you are a hypocritical fish eating vegetarian like me (yes I know eating the flesh of fish means I am NOT A vegetarian)

What do you think happens to all the male chicks that are born from egg laying breeds of hens?

crankboy – Member

Avoid anything that involves animals or their exploitation

Best not to think about all the animals that get smushed by combine harvesters when enjoying some vegan toast (or whatever it is that vegans eat).

bees had big plans for that honey they worked to create

😆 That made me laugh out loud. I’d be fairly cheesed off too if some giant regularly ripped the roof off of my house and stole all the food from my refrigerator.

In seriousness, have you tried asking her? We can hypothesise but she’s the only one who will actually know why she personally is doing it.

Is she going directly from omnivore > vegan, incidentally? I’d really recommend doing it in stages so that it’s not a shock to the system and you can isolate the cause of any problems (when I went vegetarian it was probably over two years and I was never a big meat eater to start with).

It’s perfectly possible to have a safe, sensible vegan diet but abruptly reducing most of your food groups and not replacing them with anything else is probably destined to either make her poorly or have her fall off the wagon a fortnight later.

even if you are a hypocritical fish eating vegetarian like me

You’re a pescatarian. HTH.

I’d hate to have to eat nothing but fish. It would be a bit boring to be a pescatarian.

Are you here all week?

I am, yes. Is that ok with you?

Please explain Veganism to me . . .

you mean they haven’t already?

aracer – Member
Don’t put her onion bhajis on the same plate as the chicken wings.

Ho, ho, ho!

Society has now more or less got the hang of dealing with vegetarians, ie. Nutroast on the menu at Christmas, a 2nd bbq gets lit in the summer.

This means that being a vegetarian has lost it’s main appeal: being a colossal pain in the arse.

Enter veganism.

(Yes, you now need 3 bbq’s)

Ninja edit: I claim The Edinburgh Defense!

Ninja edit retracted in light of crankboys post below.

“aracer – Member
Don’t put her onion bhajis on the same plate as the chicken wings.”
Barbecues are the real tester we have had dos with three separate fires vegan ,fish and meat .
We just did our sons birthday catering for vegan vegetarian nut+ allergy and “high vegan” that was interesting both to google “high vegan ” and shop for. Intersting making a child acceptable but nut free vegan chocolate cake in the shape of a bin lorry.

The real ale restrictions would do for me!

Also is she allowed to sit on our leather sofas? (Ok that ones a joke)

I know a vegan who won a brand new BMW in a competition. It arrived with leather seats and they refused to accept it. An alternative was not proffered.

Check out vegan sidekick for all you need to know. His books make great, if sweary, stocking fillers for the ethically inclined who could do with some support with their chosen lifestyle.

Veganism seems a much more logical ethical position than being a vegetarian.

OP, before this descends into pointscoring between the usual suspects, a quick tip – get your daughter cooking. You don’t mention her age, but I went vegan at 15 or 16 and my mum refused to cook for me. I started muddling through recipes on the back of lentil packets etc, until an aunt bought me a couple of vegan cookbooks – best thing anyone’s ever bought me. Cookbooks are a little redundant these days with the amount of vegan food blogs around, get her looking at those.

Nutrition wise, there’s nothing to worry about providing she had a balanced diet pre veganism. When I’ve seen people struggle with going vegan, it’s generally been because their previous diet hid a multitude of sins (meat and dairy are nutritionally denser than plant foods), but generally if you eat enough varied foods to get the calorie requirement met, the other requirements fall into place pretty much by default. Be sure she supplements with a quality B12 (can’t rememember which, but I think you’re better off with methylcobalamin, Solgar make one), something like a bit of flax oil wouldn’t go amiss.

Ethics wise, you’d better ask her 🙂

I know a vegan who won a brand new BMW in a competition. It arrived with leather seats and they refused to accept it.

That’s quite impressive. I won a pig’s leg in a mtb race, politely turned it down and was offered a huge wheel of fetid cheese instead.

I was showing a vegan friend and her family around my bee hives the other week, and was showing them with an empty hive how the colony works, how I extract the honey, etc, and the vegan recoiled at a squished bee between the wooden layers.

Apparently it was the dead bee bit she objected to, rather than the ‘exploitation’ side of things. I asked if she’d eat honey if I could guarantee no bee was killed – which is pretty much impossible – she said yes.

Kinda ironic as I don’t really eat honey 😮 (suppose it’s like working in a chocolate factory or something)

+1 for b12 suppliment and ramp on the iron too -deep green veg. Holland and Barrett do a good vegan suppliment vitamin pill. I drift in and out of vegetarianism and tbh when i’m on the meat wagon and riding a lot I do feel weaker, but that’s my crap veg diet… good luck to her – good to see some young ‘uns with their own ethics.

Vegan means eating anything that has any animal produce in it or made by it. Basically you do not eat or wear anything that has had a face. Which means no cake, biscuits, cheese, eggs, milk etc. It is a very hard lifestyle to live unless you cook everything from scratch with vegan margarine, vegan cheese (which does not melt but creates a leathery skin) etc you have to scrutinise packets every time you buy them as retailers often change ingredients.
I am a lacto-ovo veggie which means I eat dairy & eggs but not fish and even I sometimes I find eating out can be a real PITA.
I would not have a leather sofa etc, but I do wear leather shoes/boot; I do not have any (fashion) leather /suede jackets – I did try fake leather shoes but they made my feet sweat and smell, which is never nice when you can smell them as you walk along. There is lot of pork or beef gelatine in a lot of food produce, e.g. (bought) profiteroles, marshmallows, a lot of sweets this is made from boiling down the bones so is strictly off limits.
I am happy to handle & cook meat but I know a lot of vegetarians aren’t but then I have been veggie for 26 years, I became veggie due to the way animals were treated back in the 80’s. l also dabbled with Vegan I lasted about 2 weeks as it was so hard however I do like my eggs, cheese, butter, cake, biscuits etc. I think if animals were treated as well now then I would probably just eat free range & organic but then everything was farmed to increase productivity rather than looking after the welfare of animals.
There are some great vegetarian recipes and maybe the best thing would be to get a vegetarian recipe book like “Food for Thought” written by vegetarians that specify if recipes can be made vegan and how.

https://www.youtube.com/user/durianriders

https://www.youtube.com/user/Freelea

I’ve also wondered about this.

Genuinely not a troll and this comes from someone who has been veggie in the past but do true vegans consider the animal products which may have been used to fertilise the crops they eat? What about land clearance for soya, Palm oil, nut plantations? Environmental impact of synthetic fertilisers?

I salute anyone who does but I think it must be really difficult to have a diet that has nil impact on animal life.

The real ale restrictions

Don’t put her onion bhajis on the same plate as the chicken wings.

Now where have I heard that one before?

Ah yes, I remember!

I salute anyone who does but I think it must be really difficult to have a diet that has nil impact on animal life.

Most vegans would agree. That’s why every vegan I know, which is a lot, looks at it more as a lifestyle choice to aim for rather than a black and white label. It’s impossible completely avoid products with animal products in them or which have an impact on animals. It’s just another label, which is not to be taken too literally.

Having been a veggie all my life (I eat eggs/dairy, but not meat/fish. Yes my parents were veggie, but it has always been my choice. Now I’m the awkward veggie that goes round for dinner!) I have been contemplating going vegan recently. I think people in general just need to think more not just about what they eat, but where it comes from

What about land clearance for soya, Palm oil, nut plantations? Environmental impact of synthetic fertilisers?

This is a big one – palm oil is one of the worst offenders, and I try to avoid anything with it in the ingredients, but the meat industry is far worse. Looking at the amount of land required vs the calorific output of the food produced, being veggie/vegan is much more efficient and less polluting.

I don’t have a problem with others eating meat as long as they are realistic about where it comes from. Would you be prepared to slaughter a cow/pig and deal with the carcass etc?

Veganism seems a much more logical ethical position than being a vegetarian.

That may be so, but you’re assuming everyone is veggie for the same reason. Also,

I salute anyone who does but I think it must be really difficult to have a diet that has nil impact on animal life.

Thing is, it’s not an all-or-nothing option. It’s like arguing that it’s pointless recycling newspapers because you drive a car or fly in aeroplanes. Sure, engines may well have a bigger impact on the environment, but that doesn’t mean that recycling is suddenly worthless. Someone being veggie for ethical reasons will have to choose their priorities and live their lives accordingly. Not eating beef won’t do anything for the poor fluffy baa-lambs, but it’s considerably better for the cows.

As you say though, it’s probably impossible to have zero impact, there’s always another level to go to. I’ve read of people who won’t eat sugar because some refining techniques use bone meal (even though none of it ends up in the final product). So we – well, they – have to do what they can and decide as individuals where to draw the line.

I don’t have a problem with others eating meat as long as they are realistic about where it comes from. Would you be prepared to slaughter a cow/pig and deal with the carcass etc?

I’ve always thought the same, but then for me the answer is “no” which is a large part of why I’m vegetarian. If I couldn’t handle the wetwork then it’d be monumentally hypocritical of me me cheerfully chow down on it so long as someone cuts it into handy pieces and wraps it in shrink-wrap first.

At what point does it stop being icky and start being food? It’s either nasty or it’s not, surely? I could never rationalise that personally, which is largely why I don’t eat it (and why I’m not one of Those veggies who goes to pieces at the prospect of a bacon butty). The very idea revolts me.

As I’ve got older and more of a tree-hugger the ethical side of meat-eating has become more important, but that wasn’t my initial motivation and hence why veganism wasn’t for me. I’ll happily buy leather shoes because, unless I’ve spectacularly lost an argument I thought I was certain about, I don’t generally eat my shoes.

Real ale restrictions??? whats not allowed in beer

Water
Malted barley
Hops
Yeast

cant see owt animal there

Finings if you need to use em are animal or fish based but never needed them

Finings is the big one I think, yes. Might not need it in homebrew but most commercial beers and wines use it still, I believe. Can’t think of anything else offhand.

homebrew uses seaweed (same stuff, or an extract of, is used for vegan “gelatin”)

did spot a wine labeled as vegan wine just this evening in the local “bio” food store. so I guess that means most wine still use fish guts, but some micro-vintners use presumably something similar to home brewers.

certainly seen some pretty cloudy beers out there, so I guess there are many that don’t bother with clearing agents, although I don’t know of any that state they’re vegan, when in fact many (or even most) probably are.

more than happy to skin a bunny, or snare my dinner.
and I refuse to believe a word durianrider says, after the one video I watched basically was trying to tell me that baa-sheep and moo-cows were carnivorous. sure promote veganism, but don’t talk BS to justify it.

@cougar and Tom – thanks for the responses – as I said I’m genuinely interested in how vegans square this and your replies have helped.

For my own part I do eat meat but not all the time – we eat veggie / vegan a lot, and when we do eat meat we do make the effort to buy locally produced or high welfare stuff that we know the provenience of. At the moment we have lamb in the freezer which was raised on the open moor about 2 miles from our house by good friends of ours and I’m comfortable with that.

And yes, I do think there is an argument for understanding the process from field to table if you eat meat, and again that’s somethimg I’m comfortable with ethically.

Out of interest what do you think about the landscape impact? Where I live (Dartmoor) would look very different if it had not been actively grazed by animals ultimately destined for the table over centuries. There is a movement locally to promote pony meat in an effort to improve the welfare of hill ponies who otherwise have no economic value.

As you say neither end of the spectrum is black and white.

sure promote veganism, but don’t talk BS to justify it.

Aye. There’s a lot of propaganda and misinformation about. PETA for one aren’t doing anyone any favours. Like any demographic, it’s the vocal extremist minority who give the rest a bad name.