Can’t be any harder than with Conti/FSA Team 30’s. I went and bought metal tyre levers after snapping 4 plastic ones.

Shimano specifically state to avoid using levers of any description. I assume it’s to avoid damaging the rim and preventing sealing with a tubeless setup.

I’ll give you hard to install. I’ve lost one when fitting a tyre (bit of a bugger at 7 quid a pop!)

I used light weight butyl ones for a couple of years (mostly the Conti ones) and found them to be pretty fragile. I’ve yet to puncture a latex one on GP4000 running at 75/85psi. Reckon being more supple they are more likely to deform over stuff that would puncture light butyl.

Hadn’t really considered latex till it was mentioned on here. Tried some back in the day on the MTB and they were rubbish!

I have a 5 year old SL pro which came with the stock wheels. For some reason they seem to be greatly affected by crosswinds, moreso than my cosmiques. Go figure!.

I have swapped them for Zondas and the difference was notable. The front end feels less “squirmy” and planted and the cornering gives much better feedback.

I don’t feel the frame to be flexy as others say (I’m more Stannard than Quintana) and compared to my old school Ali Pinarello frame (which is stiffer than a teenager’s bedsheets) it feels fine.

It did come with a fair stack height and shortish stem so maybe noodle around with reach and height first.

Nevis- what stock wheels were they? FSA?

Latex loses enough pressure overnight (or even over a very long ride) to require topping up, punctures easily, and can’t be patched.

Not really, they lose about 8-10 PSI/night, which means I pump up to about 110 PSI and commute for three days on 25c. Latex tubes are the easiest to patch, just use proper Rema TipTop patches and vulcanising glue and hey presto, the patches will stick like nothing else.

Where they suffer is in installation. They are so flexible that if the tyre bead does not seat perfectly, the tube will squeeze underneath and go bang once ridden – and the ensuing 10 cm slash means another £8 wasted! (well £16 in my case as I’ve done it twice). In fact I once had a screw hole in a brand new Schwalbe One and the replacement latex tube squeezed through the hole and exploded (how I learned to patch them!).

So if you don’t mind pumping them up every three days, are careful with installation, and don’t mind the extra rolling noise, they are light and have a sublime tubular-like ride.

I buy Michelin air comp from Decathlon.

the extra rolling noise

?? 😐

Quick question (I’ve got anotherday before the tyres turn up)- The Ultegra 6800. Is there anything better out there for circa £225 thats also 1600gms?)

are you going to service the cup/cones yourself ? 😯

I can build a mountain bike from scratch. Apparentky its tooless?

**** it. What wheels upto £400??

RS80/81 or other??

Superstar Pave 28 are on my shopping list. New school wide road rims and decent weight.

Shimano specifically state to avoid using levers of any description. I assume it’s to avoid damaging the rim and preventing sealing with a tubeless setup.

Not sure that’s true though I’ve read it before here. The warning stickers on my 6700 wheels (basically same wheel but 10spd hub) said not to hook levers around spokes, not that they can’t be used on the rims.

Quick question (I’ve got anotherday before the tyres turn up)- The Ultegra 6800. Is there anything better out there for circa £225 thats also 1600gms?)

Stans, a23, archetypes (all about 400g) etc on novatec hubs (mr ride, sokin etc on ebay, about 280g a pair!) all come in well under budget and start arround 1250g depending on spokes. You do have to build them, or pay someone who knows what they’re doing with light road wheel builds, i did my own but its not as easy as MTB wheelbuilding.

So if you don’t mind pumping them up every three days, are careful with installation, and don’t mind the extra rolling noise, they are light and have a sublime tubular-like ride.

or just go tubeless!

What wheels upto £400??

If I wanted light wheels to race on I’d probably get some of the Farsports wheels. The wider carbon one like these.

If it was for training and putting in the miles I’d get something like Archetype on whatever Shimano hub in budget. I’ve got one of the rims to build up at the moment with some DT Swiss Competition spokes. Bit heavier than the ones you were looking at but they’ll make a good set of wheels. Prebuilt here. For the price though the pre-built shimano ones do look pretty darn good.

I’m going for a set of Ksyrium Elite’s which can be had for not much over £300 from here, there getting more stock in a week or so apparently.

Superstar Pave 28 are on my shopping list. New school wide road rims and decent weight.

^^This.

Not sure that’s true though I’ve read it before here. The warning stickers on my 6700 wheels (basically same wheel but 10spd hub) said not to hook levers around spokes, not that they can’t be used on the rims.

The quote from the tech doc re tyre levers is:

• The tires should always be installed and removed by hand. Never use tools such as tire levers, as they can damage the seal between the tires and the rims and cause air to leak out from the tires.

Those Pave’s do look good. Very very tempting.

which refers to installing tubeless tyres and breaking the airtight seal between rim and tyre, not to damaging the rim itself and preventing it from being used with tubeless tyres in the future. Least that’s how I read it.

Hora if the 4000s’ are on their way try them first on your existing rims, £400 on winter wheels is a bit silly.

Question- hefting the Ultegra wheelset (without tyres/tubes)- the rear feels heavy. Can the stated figures be out?

Compare to the C50 Dura ace rear wheel with tyre/tube- that feels lighter in the ‘heft’ test.

Looking at the figures though the Dura ace wheelset is 1670gm’s the Ultegra 1650gm’s.

Also -why would anyone pay 1k for wheels that are heavier than Ultegra? (I’m missing something here I bet- comfort and stiffness).

Also -why would anyone pay 1k for wheels that are heavier than Ultegra? (I’m missing something here I bet- comfort and stiffness).

The C50’s are 50mm deep, much more aero than the usual ~24mm rims.

I would have guessed the ultegra front was lighter than the C50? The ligher rim on the rear is probably offset by a heavier hub, DA will have more Ti and alu bits inside whereas there’s not much you can do to lighten a front hub.

I wouldn’t worry. My ancient and heavier R-550’s are only marginaly ‘worse’ than my <1300g stans wheelset in terms of feel. Shimano wheelsets always punch above (or below?) their weight IME as they spend the money on light rims where it matters to compensate for their heavier hubs.

Got it- why does it feel heavier? will track down some scales 😀

No idea, I’d bet it’s in your head, thinking that the beefy looking DA wheels should be heavy, so when they’re similar to the spindly ultegra wheels you think they’re lighter? The tyre and tube is 250g as a minium, they can’t be lighter!

Why do all Hora bike threads make me want to scream*

“arrrrrrghgoddammitjustridetheeffingthinghoraarrrrrgh!!”

I wonder whether you ever actually fully enjoy any of your rides or whether they are all overshadowed by worrying about if thing X could be better/different and make it 0.35% nicer.

I can understand wanting to upgrade and chasing that theoretical perfection, but sometimes I do wonder if some people get lost in the chase.

* a light hearted scream with a smile, not a genuine scream of course 🙂

“arrrrrrghgoddammitjustridetheeffingthinghoraarrrrrgh!!”

TBF That’s true for most STW threads 😉

which refers to installing tubeless tyres and breaking the airtight seal between rim and tyre, not to damaging the rim itself and preventing it from being used with tubeless tyres in the future. Least that’s how I read it.

Good point. Do the tyre manufacturers make similar warnings?

I wonder whether you ever actually fully enjoy any of your rides or whether they are all overshadowed by worrying about if thing X could be better/different and make it 0.35% nicer.

I doubt many of us on here make impulsive purchases (or possibly less so than others male/females).

We look into the detail, things like colour- when ordering a car or bike. If we are given choice and theres no obvious stand out colour we’ll spend time thinking, looking for examples etc for a likeness wont we? Its all good stuff 8)

Just bought some Superstar Volta hubs laced to some Pacenti SL23 rims for £169. Lighter than Shimano and on trend wide rims.

I was tempted by superstar but their email/contact form bounced and my left voicemail wasnt returned. If you are reading this fruit I can send you the form error message report. Doesnt bode well. Anyway I also bought the RS81 C24’s but chose to fit the Ultegra wheels
The GP4000’s went on with NO levers.

Superstar Pave 28 are on my shopping list. New school wide road rims and decent weight.

i’d be concerned that the weight is a made up number like the mtb rims – which seem like a good buy; until you find out they are 20% heavier than they claim and actually there are lots of similar rims.

@thomthumb that is why I ended up not going for the Pave 28s and bought the Pacenti SL23s.

Also -why would anyone pay 1k for wheels that are heavier than Ultegra? (I’m missing something here I bet- comfort and stiffness).

To match the group set, as I’m an unspeakable bike tart.

Aero innit.

Dont get me wrong I’d have the Dura ace all day long. Sublime is the word. Thats where the money is spent.

@thomthumb that is why I ended up not going for the Pave 28s and bought the Pacenti SL23s.

Same here. Went for the Pacenti SL23 Volta 11p Hub Clearance deal on Superstar. Only £169.99 with Cycling Weekly discount code. Don’t know much about the hubs but this is what Superstar wrote on bike radar about them.

Ok here’s the deal. The hubs are our 11speed version but we have upgraded them again online with out tesla EVO mountain hubs, so these are the clearance 60 engagement ones. The rims are just the old sticker version.

Surely worth a try at that price. They’ll be a good upgrade over my Shimano R501’s that came on my Supersix.

You’ll find the higher up the shimano tree you go you get rounder wheels ….

Just done 42miles around Sowerby/Calderdale on thrm. Awesome tyres.

pretty sure Superstar use Novatec hubs?

Only problem is anytime anyone buys a superstar component a crow scratches a baby’s face and a fairy drowns in a kitten’s tears.

besides which, Ultegra matched my groupset.

Latex tubes and sensible pressures?

Latex tubes and sensible pressures?

Bought 2xVittori Latex tubes. They feel very sensual 😯

What do you class as sensible pressures? I’ve been running 80psi on normal tubes and it doesn’t pinch/feels good on my GP4000II’s.