Out of interest Hora, have you played with lower pressures at all?

I’ve recently found going down to around 6bar/80psi has improved comfort and grip and not appreciably impaired rolling, that’s with 25c(apparently deadly) basic conti gatorskins, they’re not perfect (more due to being a cheaper tyre), but going to a lower pressure has made noticable improvements…

I get the impression that a lot of people run 23c tyres at 90-100+psi for “general” road riding and won’t countenance going that bit lower on pressure to improve comfort and grip for fear of some massive loss in rolling performance, but it’s not the case, we simply don’t have the lovely smooth tamac in the UK for rock hard tyres to be very effective…

OK I’m still new to this- wouldn’t dropping PSI increase pinchflat (or the risk of punctures)?

Depends where you ride.

Round here I run 25c at 75 front / 85 rear (and +10 for 23c.) But then I’m mostly riding training routes I know well and have picked them for having a reasonable surface. And I’m not that heavy either. Never pinch flat.

Try it and see what you think. If you pinch flat loads then up the pressures.

Edit: FWIW, I find lower pressures work better with supple tyres like open tubulars and latex tubes. Tend to run higher pressures on the 4 seasons with heavier butyl tubes, they don’t feel as nice at the lower pressures.

Why not try some nice wheels first to see if they make a difference?

Got some Dura Ace 9000 C50s on 25mm Conti GP4000s, I’m heading Huddersfield way tomorrow, heading home Sunday if you want to give them a whirl? Mail in profile.

Sounds good- I could give them a spin up and over Castle Hill/Farnley/Mast way. Where are you going to be (I’ll come to you). Of course -if I bend/scratch or rip its replace. I’ll email you.

Go tubs hora, A man of your calibre deserves them…

I’ll sleep well Sat night- Peaks ride in am, road in aft 8)

C50’s and those slab sided forks!!!! You’ll never stay upright.

You wont know whether its the Dura Ace wheels or the better GP4000S tyres that feels different, so it won’t be a meaningful test.

Until you can quantify what is wrong with your bike you wont know how to improve it. It seems you’ve settled on wheels purely on the grounds they’re a substantial part of the bike that is affordable to change.

My carbon Lapierre is lighter and stiffer than the ally bike it replaced, and turns in more quickly but then feels more stable mid corner. Whether that’s the carbon, geometry, weight distribution or riding position I dont know, there was nothing wrong with the ally Orbea but the Lapierre is better and certainly not ‘dead’

Oh, and been doing at least 100 miles a week every week since June 2013, split between Lapierre and a commuter/winter bike. Winter bike is on second set of pads but neither wheels (Ultegras on Lapierre, Aksiums on winter bike) show any measurable wear.

Going tubeless improved how mine felt but not because the frame was shit just because wheelset & tyres were better so I would definitely try some better wheels/tyres

Not the same bike, but I had a px kaffenback 2. I changed the OEM wheels (deore hubs and mach 820 rims) for a set of Hope/Archteypes. Everything else remained the same, tires, tubes etc.

The bike was transformed from something dead and wooden to something much more lively. Net cost to change was around £150 but worth every penny.

Oh, and been doing at least 100 miles a week every week since June 2013, split between Lapierre and a commuter/winter bike. Winter bike is on second set of pads but neither wheels (Ultegras on Lapierre, Aksiums on winter bike) show any measurable wear.

Not bad going I guess, how hilly are your rides though? Although I’d have thought commuting would wear out your rims quickly.

I usually do between 200 – 300 miles per week, although when I wore my rims out last time I was going up and down Wrynose pass quite alot I seem to remember, needs the brakes on the way down in the wet for sure, so thats what probably did them.

On every bike I’ve I’ve owned I’ve kept all the same decent kit and carried over onto a frame/fork. Upgrade the wheels/tyres is an investment as it’ll be carried over too I guess.

Question (newbie)- can you use std road tyres with tubeless clincher rims?

No. For road wheels you need tubeless tyres to run tubeless as the bead needs to be stronger.

MrBlobby – But I think can use normal tyres with tubes on tubeless rims though?

Question (newbie)- can you use std road tyres with tubeless clincher rims?

yes, I have Ultegra 6700 wheels which are tubeless compatible (they come with the valves so all I’d need to buy would be tubeless-specific tyres and sealant) but use normal GP4000s with tubes.

Wrynose pass quite alot I seem to remember, needs the brakes on the way down in the wet for sure,

my rides are rolling (oxfordshire) and most of the descents on my hill loops dont require much braking (either long flat run-outs or carry momentum into the next climb). Long and wet braking-heavy descents will definitely do rims quickly though!

Upgrade the wheels/tyres is an investment as it’ll be carried over too I guess.

I did that with the Ultegra wheels – bought them for the Ally Orbea, when I bought the Lapierre I swapped wheels and kept the Ultegras on the Lapierre. I noticed the difference between wheels, but I reckon the difference between crap OE and decent aftermarket, high-TPI, nice compound tyres had a bigger effect (for less expense).

Andyhilton- just remembered riding your ribble sportive with 400 £ carbon wheels. I didnt want to comeback. What wheels were those??

Oh, and been doing at least 100 miles a week every week since June 2013, split between Lapierre and a commuter/winter bike. Winter bike is on second set of pads but neither wheels (Ultegras on Lapierre, Aksiums on winter bike) show any measurable wear.

Good going! Wish I could say the same.

Hijack/since everyone is talking about nice road wheels, I have a set of Campagnolo Zondas I’m about to put up for sale. I bought them new in June or July, but I’m switching to discs on all my bikes. And don’t worry, these haven’t got knackered rims 😀 . After £170/hijack.

An old set of rs80s I think. Got some RS81s, Zipp 30s, Zipp 60s and Kysrium Elites knocking about too. Think I may have too many wheels!

Hundred !

😳

(just to show I’m not just a wunundred-bagger, have a look at light-bicycle; they’ll build you a set of wheels on disc hubs for about 400 quid)

(You need to make sure you get them laced appropriately for discs, though when I bought mine, their builder was obviously on the case already)

Ok Im on tomhowards lpaned wheels/GP4000’s (maybe a placebo) but they seem comfier (softer compound?) And carry momentum better. A fair assumption/observation?

Yes, being light weight supple “race” tyres, that is what they are meant to do. It’s more to do with the softer carcass.

Btw, what tubes was he using and what pressures did you run them at?

. A fair assumption/observation?

Yup, I’d say so..

Can you borrow a set of 60mm carbon jobbies too, for testing? Be a completely different feel again.

Btw, what tubes was he using and what pressures did you run them at?

Bog standard Specialized ones, 90ish PSI when I left them.

What Mrblobby said, much higher TPI carcass is more supple, cheap OE tyres are often 60TPI, aren’t GP4000S something bonkers like 320TPI? The casing is ‘softer’ not the actual compound.

AndyH- sell me one of your old un’s!

Every days a school day. I wrongly assumed tpi was something to do with puncture protection.

Tpi:

Ultrasport- 85
GT – 185
4000s- 330

Bing!

Update- On I’ve ordered:

Conti’s 25mm Conti GP4000s
Ultegra 6800 wheelset

Thanks Tomhoward for the loan- boy I didn’t want to hand them back! Will drop off on Sat as promised. The tyres on yours were the final ‘straw’ to swaying me.

Cheers guys 🙂

Dibs if for re-sale

If you’re getting GP4000 then do it properly and latex tubes too, well worth it.

PITA to get tyres on and off those Ultegra 6800’s. Not impossible, just way harder/more fiddly than you’d like if it’s cold and wet and need to stick a new tube in to get home.

I’ve bought the kit to go tubeless, but haven’t got around to it yet. Sort of feels like I’ve thrown good money after bad as the 6800’s weren’t massively better than the OEM rims on my Giant TCR.

6800’s weren’t massively better than the OEM rims on my Giant TCR.

Look like a good set of wheels for the money… but then 250 quid is not a lot of money when it comes to nice wheels. You can spend that much on a decent rear hub.

Every days a school day. I wrongly assumed tpi was something to do with puncture protection.

Bear in mind some manufacturers are economical with the truth. Conti’s 330 casing will be similar to a 110 casing, as they almost always have 3 plies of material under the tread,a s the threads are at an angle you get crossed plies, hence cross ply tyres (appart form the silly money maxxis radial tyres). Best to judge it relative to the rest of the range i.e. 330 is better than 185, better than 85, but not better than Schwalble 120tpi, and Schwalble 27tpi is probably equivelent to conti 85tpi.

and latex tubes

Which ones? Might as well whilst I’m building the lot.

Hora, I got the Michelin Air Comp ones. They say 23c but I run them with 25c tyres and haven’t died yet. Been running them for about 6 months now and yet to puncture one. They can be quite easy to pinch a hole in when fitting the tyre though.

TINAS, how do you even know this stuff?! 🙂

PITA to get tyres on and off those Ultegra 6800’s

Can’t be any harder than with Conti/FSA Team 30’s. I went and bought metal tyre levers after snapping 4 plastic ones.

I also have the powerful paws of a bear- powerful mitts attached to my wrists. After the fun and games with the tyre/rim it felt like my fingers had been peeled back/hands stretched for days.

Which ones? Might as well whilst I’m building the lot.

Latex loses enough pressure overnight (or even over a very long ride) to require topping up, punctures easily, and can’t be patched.

Just get lightweight butyl ones, they’re as light as latex, feel like latex, but without some of the downsides. Conti supersonic weigh the same as latex tubes at 50-55g, michelin ultralight are about 80g and a bit more reliable, the valves on the contis fall off the tube if you look at them funny with a hand pump as the tubes so thin.

TINAS, how do you even know this stuff?!

I have a huge capacity for really usefull[i]less[/i] information.

That particular nugget I think comes from the Schwalble site.

I found lightweight butyl (mostly conti supersonic) to be much more puncture prone than latex. I’d just about given up on lightweight tubes before I tried latex. Much prefer latex. Feels nicer too IMO.

They do require topping up each ride but then I’m a bit fussy about pressures and checked and pumped before each ride anyway.

Maybe I was just unlucky, I just found them an allround PITA, hard to install, and punctured both withing 200miles. Settled on the michelin tubes, they seemed to be the best ballance of reliability/lightweight/feel, the lighter butyl tubes all split at the valve eventualy.