Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 50 total)
  • Pivot Firebird – am I crazy
  • adrianbarsanti
    Free Member

    I’m thinking of selling my 2012 Orange 5 and getting the Pivot Firebird, there’s something about that bike tha makes me want it!
    I’ve got a custom Orange 5 with some cosmetic damage on the paintwork (a few weeks hung on a cheap bike rack travelling around New Zealand) but finishing kit it great, Thomson stem and seatpost, Hope 2 Evo and NoTubes rims wheelset, Shimano XT 2×10 drive train and Formula RX brakes with 180mm discs.
    I love my Orange, but having a bike that can climb, descend and take a beating is very tempting….
    Am I being stupid?

    ash.addy
    Free Member

    It does look nice mind.

    adrianbarsanti
    Free Member

    Tell me about it!

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    wrecker
    Free Member

    Doesn’t weigh much more than a five (7.5 vs 7.9lbs)

    adrianbarsanti
    Free Member

    Any thoughts on what I could get for my 5? The fork is a Fox 32 Float FIT RLC, kashima coat front and rear. If I can get the right price it’s as if I’m meant to do this!

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    I love my Orange, but because having a bike that can climb, descend and take a beating is very tempting

    (I’d never buy a five like but surly the five’s likely a better all rounder? Doesn’t the fire bird have over 170mm of bounce? Those forks will be fair hefty!

    I’d recommend a Dune as a halfway house, replaced my remedy with a (heavier) 2010 one and never looked back. Prefer it to the spicy I tried and much better than a cube fritzz I’ve ridden a few times.

    thedon
    Free Member

    What he said ^

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I’d bet that DW firebird climbs better than a five.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    The Firebird’s the one bike in the Pivot range I don’t like the look of, their others are cleaner, that looks like a mass of girders in the middle of it.

    170mm travel is on the burly side too, that notch further on from the likes of the Spicy/Nomad.

    thedon
    Free Member

    I’d bet that DW firebird climbs better than a five.

    I doubt it very much.

    Its an AM bike with 170mm of travel weighing roughly 32lbs.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    For that money, the Mojo HD is lighter and has DW link.

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    that notch further on from the likes of the Spicy/Nomad.

    Those forks share the 180mm chassis (like the enduro evo) so are a good 300g or so heavier than 160s or even 170 lyriks and will have a commensurably longer axle to crown too. If you’re getting such a bury bike you’d really want a wind-down/ TALAS system for climbing.

    I’d still love one like.

    hugor
    Free Member

    They are beautiful bikes. I have owned lots of pretty nice bikes but the Pivot climbs the best by a long shot.
    I’ve ridden this thing in 100km events as its climbing efficiency is comparable to 4 inch race bikes but it descends like the 6.5 inch travel machine that it is.
    Here are pics of my 2010 Firebird. Things have changed a bit since then but I put this together initially from some bits from older retired bikes.
    I haven’t ridden any Orange bikes to compare but I have owned Intense, and currently own a Niner. This bike climbs better than any other bike I’ve owned. 29ers are my thing now and if Pivot made a 5 inch 29er I’d be there.
    My only concern is mud clearance. My bike is back in Aus so I can’t measure it up for you but I’d suggest you check this with your rear tyre of preference.



    thedon
    Free Member

    The I’ve ridden this thing in 100km events as its climbing efficiency is comparable to 4 inch race bikes but it descents like the 6.5 inch travel machine that it is.

    BS.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I doubt it very much.

    I don’t. Its happy with 160 forks, and the DW won’t bounce like a pogo under pedaling. It is more efficient than a single pivot, like it or not.

    Its an AM bike with 170mm of travel weighing roughly 32lbs.

    Opposed to an AM bike with 140mm of travel weighing roughly 32lbs.

    thedon
    Free Member

    I don’t. Its happy with 160 forks, and the DW won’t bounce like a pogo under pedaling.

    Obviously not ridden many DW link bikes then mate.

    Opposed to an AM bike with 140mm of travel weighing roughly 32lbs.

    No, a 140mm trail bike weighing 28 lbs.

    Clearly you know more about bikes than me though, from your post count.

    You must be an MTB god? I’ve noticed there are quite a few on here.

    adrianbarsanti
    Free Member

    Nice build – what’s going on with the nose of your saddle?!

    I’ve also heard that these boys climb ridiculously well, but I’ve got to demo one to really compare. I’ve been running my Orange as a 1×10 set up for a while using a 34 tooth ring up front and have had no issues really on climbing, I was thinking that I would set the Firebird up the same way. I’ve also got an XTR shadow+ mech that I would swap over (on my Five now). Shadow+ is awesome, you can’t underrate how good a quiet ride is!

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Obviously not ridden many DW link bikes then mate.

    Really? 😆
    Have you ever ridden a single pivot and a DW bike?
    If you think that the SP is more efficient, you’re smoking crack.

    Opposed to a 140mm trail bike weighing 28 lbs.

    Obviously not ridden a 5 AM then mate.

    You must be an MTB god? There are quite a few of them on here.

    Says “thedon” 😆

    hugor
    Free Member

    The saddle always draws attention its just the Selle SMP. Looks ugly but the most comfortable I’ve used which is important for my long distance all day bikes!!

    thedon
    Free Member

    Really?
    Have you ever ridden a single pivot and a DW bike?
    If you think that the SP is more efficient, you’re smoking crack.

    I currently own an Ibis Mojo and an Orange Five, so obviously have no idea what I on about.

    Obviously not ridden a 5 AM then mate.

    Neither does the OP 🙄

    hugor
    Free Member

    The only reason I mention mud clearance is that the front part of the rear triangle is crowded with a whole lot of stuff compared with an Orange.
    Pivot were demo-ing these bikes a few weeks ago in the quagmire that was the Bonti 24/12. That would have been a great test.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I currently own an Ibis Mojo and an Orange Five, so obviously have no idea what I on about.

    You remind me of an old member. Do you have “flow”?

    thedon
    Free Member

    Did he have no idea what he was on about either?

    I’m not arguing with you, obviously you review/test bikes for a living and are an encyclopedia of knowledge.

    OP listen to Wrecker, no one else, he is god 😉

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Bit full of yourself for such a newcomer? Been here before? Live in Kent? Like to pretend you’re someone else? Come on flow, out you come.

    If you think I’m a god, fair enough. I don’t believe in them myself. You have seen your username though, haven’t you?

    Put simply, the firebird isn’t a crazy choice. DW IS efficient, the bike doesn’t have to built heavy (easily in five AM territory).

    adrianbarsanti
    Free Member

    Seem to have started some sort of SP v DW fanbois off!
    To be honest, I am liking the idea of combining my DH and Orange 5 into 1 bike. My DH is a YT Industries Tues, another bike that I love, but if I can get one bike that combines both that would be sweet. 😆

    thedon
    Free Member

    A bit full of myself? Is there some kind of initiation before I’m allowed to speak my mind?

    Put simply, the firebird isn’t a crazy choice. DW IS efficient, the bike doesn’t have to built heavy (easily in five AM territory).

    I wouldn’t say DW is more efficient than single pivot when climbing at all, and the OP doesn’t own a Five AM by the sounds of it, so it should be a fair bit lighter than the Pivot.

    Do you own a Pivot Firebird? If you do, and have ridden an Orange Five, then I apologise, you probably do know more than me on the subject.

    There is no need to come across so offensive though, its the internet, people have different opinions, they aren’t automatically wrong because they don’t agree with you.

    I love my Orange, but having a bike that can climb, descend and take a beating is very tempting….
    Am I being stupid?

    The Pivot will probably decent better, I wouldn’t know because I haven’t ridden one, but I doubt it will climb any better, or take more of a beating than your Orange.

    hugor
    Free Member

    The only SP bike I’ve ridden alot was my GF’s Santa Cruz superlight. That certainly bobbed like a pogo stick on the ups and had terrible brake jack issues going down. The firebird was better by a long shot in both directions.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    hugor – Member

    The saddle always draws attention its just the Selle SMP. Looks ugly but the most comfortable I’ve used which is important for my long distance all day bikes!!

    The weird bend matches the weird bend in the seat tube. Meant to be.

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    The 5 (if you believe the STW hype) is an utterly amazing do-it-all bike…the Firebird is going to look different and work differently but probably isn’t going to be any better or worse…if you have the cash to splash then go for it, if not, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. My mate has been a very long-term Orange 5 lover but even he has fallen to the Pivot Mach 5.7 which he says climbs and descends much better than the 5…he says it just rides so much better.

    james
    Free Member

    “the Mojo HD is lighter and has DW link”
    Simply having a DW link surely doesn’t mean it will ride the same though no?
    I was at an IMechE lecture with Cy (Cotic) where he showed with many a graph how a DW turner 5spot was very different to a DW mojo

    “will have a commensurably longer axle to crown too”
    I thought they were the same (relative to travel)? ie 180mm Fox 36 A2C was 565mm? as per RS Domain/Totem

    From the pics above, it doens’t look like there is masses of seatpost drop. Obviously better than spesh SJer and Enduros of old, but still not amazing for a 170mm bike?

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    A’member’ on here other night said 5s suffer from metal-fatigue…

    So you’ll probably want rid of it anyway if it’s over 3 years old and you ride CyB often 😉

    deanfbm
    Free Member

    Test it.

    I rode one, didnt think much of it. If you have the patience to be seated, spinning the easiest possible gear, you will be rewarded on the climbs. Get out of the saddle, and lay down some power, just as every pivot i’ve tried (429, mach 4, 5.7 and firebird) you are sorely reminded you’re on a full suspension bike. Really awful for flattish flowy stuff out of the sadddle where it’s nice to put in the odd hard crank just when pumping won’t quite suffice.

    The firebird for the heavy hitting stuff was lacking. No real support or control, one big wallowy mess. In the rough in does glide smoothly other stuff, just as other pivots i have tried too, but no real feedback.

    It’s a big squishy bike, regardless of whatever pixie dust was used in the manufacture of the linkage. It’s a big bike which is hard work to pedal.

    If you’re a sit and spin rider to get up a hill, the roll down the other side, it’ll do the job. If you want to work the bike with any real venom on the flat/up/down, it reacts almost uncontrolled to hard input.

    For the five vs the firebird, give me a five.

    twebeast
    Free Member

    I’m not going to comment on the 5 since I’ve never ridden one. However I currently ride a Firebird around Surrey. My previous ride was a Mojo SL.

    The DW link is different, and it weighs 31ish lbs rather than 29lbs, but I honestly don’t miss the Mojo in any respect.

    The Firebird climbs and pedals equally well (I am lazy and like to pedal seated) but has a longer wheelbase, FAR better standover (and I’d suggest this equally applies vs the HD, despite the similar claimed numbers; sling a leg over both if you don’t believe me), is more stable and descends better. Possibly next time I go to Afan, I’ll feel the weight difference a little more tangibly.

    I’m torn as to whether I really need to keep hold of my Uzzi for lift-assisted duties now. That was never the case when I rode the Mojo.

    Vs the HD, all I’d say is that the end of the 2012 model line up is here and there should be some discounts on the 2012 demo bikes and 2012 frames. The price I paid for my new Firebird frame was >£600 less than what a new HD frame was being offered for at the time.

    mikertroid
    Free Member

    Not sure how that pivot climbs but my Five is a fantastic climber. It surprises me just how good it is TBH

    phatstanley
    Free Member

    but having a bike that can climb, descend and take a beating is very tempting….

    never ridden a five, but from what i’ve heard and read over the years both from friends and on forums/in the bike press, seems like that’s pretty much what they do, no?

    keep it and donate some money to a reputable charity…plenty of people on the planet have more pressing concerns. you’re looking for a problem where there is none.

    (keeps his eyes averted as he steps off his moral pedestal…)

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    lol keep forgetting what people call heavy 🙂 my heckler is flopping round at about 34lb!!

    You should know better than to come on here and doubt a 5!

    Go try it if you like it get it, just don’t try and tell people that it’s better.

    Generally find most things climb well these days. VPP is my favourite so far (long way ahead of the alpine I was comparing it to) though neither remove the need for skill and technique.

    As descending if it takes everything out then your not going fast enough

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    I currently ride a Firebird around Surrey.

    This image makes me sad.

    I can definitely see this as a great replacement for things like Uzzis and other 1 trick 180mm bikes. Much more versatile, significantly lighter and more efficient etc but couldn’t see the fun/point in hauling round a trail centre or average trails unless you were winching up a push-up track. Having said that, if you only have one bike and you’re gravity orientated I can see it as a nice compromise.

    thedon
    Free Member

    I currently ride a Firebird around Surrey.

    LOL

    hugor
    Free Member

    Get out of the saddle, and lay down some power, just as every pivot i’ve tried (429, mach 4, 5.7 and firebird) you are sorely reminded you’re on a full suspension bike. Really awful for flattish flowy stuff out of the sadddle where it’s nice to put in the odd hard crank just when pumping won’t quite suffice.

    When I first got on my Firebird I was bitterly disappointed and almost wanted to return it.
    I bought it when it first came out based on reviews and all the hype. I’d never demo-ed one.
    It took me a while to get the DHX tuned to my weight. I’d only used RP’s before so didn’t know what I was doing.
    Pivot uses high compression ratios so small changes in pressure and settings make massive differences to performance. I’m a big guy so struggled to keep the air in it after removal of the pump as the small leak when you remove it caused massive pressure loss. I think it performed loads better on the linear mode rather than progressive as the DW ramps up anyway.

    I need a bike that descends well to make up for my lack of descending skills and it works very well for me!
    But this thing seriously climbs which is where most of my riding fun is at.

    martinxyz
    Free Member

    Single pivots feel sprightly on the climbs.. often making folk say they are really efficient.. and they are,but not when the going gets rough compared to some other designs.

    If you think Ibis or Turner pay to use DW as the 2nd best option after single pivot.. like someone said earlier,you are smoking crack. 😆

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