Has anyone ridden and compared both? I really struggle with Pikes at high speed and long descents, whereas I really like the 2016 36s on my 26″ bike by comparison. I figured it would cost about the same to upgrade to 36s on my 27.5″ bike as it would to have the 140mm Pikes upgraded with the FAST cartridge at tftuned, which would be more tuned to my weight, plus the Pikes are a better fit for the bike (T130c) than 36s.

Tick.

Wondering similar. Avalanche in the Pike or a new Fox 36

Ive got both, set of Pikes with a FAST cartridge on my hardtail and 36rc2s on my full suspension, 36 is the better fork, I prefer it. More consistent damping and stiffer chassis

However the FAST pikes are very good but i don’t find they sit as high in their travel (might try the luftkappe) and also when the pikes do bottom out which is a lot less with the fast cartridge as you can dial is extra HSC to slow it down i find the pikes are very harsh and make hell of a bang. (this is very rare but tends to be when messing things up on things like road gaps/doubles and coming short or very nose heavy)

hope this helps

lyriks are the fox 36 equivalent no?

FAST damper comes with a number of base tunes, mines been setup with a race tune that is pretty heavily damped and resists bottoming out very well. I’n comparison to 36s I’ve tried, I think they feel like the more race tuned 36’s from 2015 in terms of resistance to hard hits.

So you’re going to get different opinions of the FAST cartridge, depending on how TF tuned have shimmed them.

You can get a coil conversion for Lyriks and Pikes if you struggle with long descents and want a supportive yet less harsh ride….cheaper than the FAST upgrade.

Also, resistance to bottoming is more likely to come from the air spring side. So Boxxer is a bit off blaming the issues on the damper, both the FAST damper and the Fox damper are speed sensitive, not position sensitive. Some big hits can be medium speed, eg drops and others can be high speed eg square edged hits. He might have unknowingly been running a more progressive setup on the Fox.

I’ve had both.

Assuming all being equal (as I did have a dodgy set of 36’s) I would stick with the 36.

Performance between the two is similar, yet the chassis on the 36 is considerably more reliable & durable.

Tom good reply, I’ve got both forks still, no matter what I seem to do to the pike I can’t get the same feeling from both forks, the hard bottom outs are rare and not something that happens frequently don’t get me wrong I really like the damper it is very good but I don’t think it’s quite as good as the 36.

I’m not fox biased either I’ve had one other pair of 36s (2012) and a 34 (2013) and I hated both forks, 34 being by far the worst but that was when they were using the CTD rubbish.

Word of advice, don’t take our word for it. You need to have specific issues that you want to sort with your fork, then either get it tuned or ride a bunch of other forks to see if their factory tunes suit you more. What don’t you like on long descents and hard hits? Feedback through the bars? Then a standard 36 might not be for you, a Lyrik might be better suited.

There are plenty of people that hate the Foxs (see my link below), then again, there are plenty like Hob Nob who rave about them – suspension is very personal. I’ve spent months getting my forks correct, first the FAST tune with a heavy damping setup, then a coil. All to get the fork supportive and feeling like it’s riding on the compression circuits as opposed to riding on the spring side. It’s going back again soon to have a minor tweak done, I want a slightly lighter initial shim so I get a little less small bump/light braking bump feedback when I crank up a few clicks of High Speed.

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/2016-fox-36-harsh-990536-2.html

Suspension is a long arduous process of trial and error and then when you’ve perfected the suspension setup, you break your frame and some **** invents metric or a new wheel size so you can’t transfer your settings over to a new bike – and the process that is measured in months…if not years….starts again.

Edit: Just remembered you’re riding a 26 inch 36, if you’re experiencing harshness, have you tried burping the Pike?

If you like the 36 though, by all means get another instead of the FAST cartridge – it wouldn’t really be out of place.

Some useful replies guys, thanks.

lyriks are the fox 36 equivalent no?

Yes, but I have Pikes already. I have been tempted to get a cheap Yaris and drop my charger in but its probably not very cost effective vs selling the Pike and buying a complete 2nd hand fork though.

have you tried burping the Pike?

No, but have only done 2 rides since servicing them so wouldn’t expect a pressure build up. I dropped down to 2.5wt RS oil in the charger at the same time, was initially impressed but back to back vs. the 36 at BPW really showed them up. Not necessarily on big hits, more on repeated smaller hits at speed and braking bumps etc.

Also interesting about the FAST base tunes, 36s do feel harsh when cruising but go like butter when you plough in to a hairy section at speed, exactly the opposite of Pikes in my experience. I’d probably want something similar from the FAST damper.

So a lot of high speed compression blow off then….isn’t the stock air spring without tokens on the Fox 36 more linear than the stock air spring on the Pike without tokens….that’s why they recommend less sag, hairy sections might feel harsh due to an overly progressive spring setup.

The fast tune does sort out the spikey rebound on small fast repeated stuff, it improved brake dive support considerably and improved high speed blow off on square edged hits- which can also be tuned pretty effectively with the HSC adjuster.

But THE single best upgrade I did to my Pike was installing a coil – the FAST cartridge was something you had to ride somewhere decent like BPW or Antur to notice. The coil transformed the fork the instant I bounced around on it.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/coil-conversion-for-the-pike/page/8

Here we go.

OP do you have a RC or a RCT3 damper?.

Pike charger damper is not a straight fit in a Yari.

36 can be made very very good with a little bit of tinkering. I have had all 3 forks and currently have a RXF 36 I will be having a go of once its back from here. Out of the 3 the 36 is definitely more stout, is that a good thing or a bad thing only you can decide. They do feel wooden off the top and small bump is not that great but you can work around that and make it far, far better.

RS go longer between services without as much of a drop off in performance, especially with the new damper and air spring seals.

I’d say tom has covered the RS options well, the Fast damper is a nice bit of kit, essentially a RC2 damper for a RS chassis. Its very nice.

^^^^ Rick knows his stuff, I’ve followed quite a few of his posts over at Pinkbike….

A lot of the people have stated the RXF36 feels stiffer than even the Fox though, the one piece crown seems like a good idea in terms of durability and stiffness…I really hope they do bring out the coil version.

OP do you have a RC or a RCT3 damper?.

Pike charger damper is not a straight fit in a Yari.

Current fork is a boost Pike with RC damper, so I thought it would be a straight swap? I had the same experience with RCT3 Pikes on the 26″ bike too so assumed the damper was identical barring the lack of trail/climb modes.

Tom – the coil conversion for the Pike does look good, i’ve read your thread before – i’d need to be a bit more certain of my current settings before ordering one though! I kind of figured my issue was down to damping though rather than air spring? Let me know if i’m wrong…

Current fork is a boost Pike with RC damper, so I thought it would be a straight swap? I had the same experience with RCT3 Pikes on the 26″ bike too so assumed the damper was identical barring the lack of trail/climb modes.

Ahh a boost pike charger damper will fit. A none boost won’t. Be aware though that the damper from the Yari won’t fit in the Pike. RS changed the threads on the boost pike and the yari/lyrik.

Current fork is a boost Pike with RC damper, so I thought it would be a straight swap? I had the same experience with RCT3 Pikes on the 26″ bike too so assumed the damper was identical barring the lack of trail/climb modes.

Ahh a boost pike charger damper will fit. A none boost won’t as RS changed the threads on the boost pike and the yari/lyrik. Be aware though that the damper from the Yari won’t fit in the Pike.

Fast damper is a nice bit of kit, essentially a RC2 damper for a RS chassis. Its very nice.

Essentially my opinion too – the problem is the RS chassis is junk.

My old fork & everyone I ride with ahs warrantied them for creaking crowns repeatedly.

The Fox chassis is much better.

Here’s what I think

The coil conversion improved sensitivity and thus grip on small chatter and midstroke dive the most. The steel city DH at Greno went from giving me a fair bit of a bit of chatter through the bars, to feeling like I almost had a flat tyre with the coil. Under situations where the fork flexes a lot, it’s more active as well. This is easily verifiable by leaning right over the bars and binding the fork up when trying to compress it, my air fork would seize up considerably despite having a recent service – where as with the coil stiction increases by what feels like half what it did previously.

The FAST cartridge improved grip and lessened harsh feedback through medium size rock gardens and square edged hits that take you up to the beginning of the last third of travel. The coil did this a bit because my setup offered a bit less resistance in the last 20 percent of travel than my progressive air setup – but the FAST damper meant that the fork didn’t choke so much on repeated hard hits.

Out of the two, I think they are upgrades of equal value in terms of performance – it’s just that the coil is better value for money and improves reliability as well.

If I was going to get another fork, it would be a Yari with a coil and the FAST damper, as I have yet to hear of any creaking Lyriks/Yaris. (unless Ohlins release their coil RXF as an aftermarket fork). My two year old Pikes aren’t creaking though and I don’t expect them to.

My old fork & everyone I ride with ahs warrantied them for creaking crowns repeatedly.

The Fox chassis is much better.

Pikes creak as RS seem incapable of torquing the top caps to spec. Fox would also creak if they did the same.

Its not a new problem and Fox have in the past had big problems with creaking CSU’s, its not exclusive to RS.

Thanks Tom & Rick, read and taken it all in, lots to think about!

Rick Draper – Member

Pikes creak as RS seem incapable of torquing the top caps to spec. Fox would also creak if they did the same.

Really not convinced about this- why would they keep replacing CSUs and forks under warranty if they just had to torque up the caps?

It’s not exclusive to RS right now it’s RS that have an issue with it so the fact that Fox have had it in the past doesn’t really signify.

Not necessarily on big hits, more on repeated smaller hits at speed and braking bumps etc.

This is also my experience with Pikes; I’ve had 3 sets & really don’t rate them as a fork for “big n fast” Alpine style riding. To put this in context, I’ve had numerous 36’s up to model year 2011, I then went to Bos Deville, then to Marzocchi 55rc3ti, back to Bos, then to 55 rc3ti v2, onto Pike (1st gen 26″ rc3), Pike rc3 (27.5) & Pike RS (which came OE on a bike I bought).

Out of all the forks mentioned above, the only ones I got arm pump with was the Pike (all of them); going from the rc3ti v2 to the pike was like going back in time, damping wise. They just felt cack. I’m also a fan of coil forks but don’t just dismiss air because there are some great examples out there (Bos instantly springs to mind), but what I’ve realised is that you can spend hell of a lot of money on a product that just isn’t good enough to start with.

Going off on a slight tangent, as some folk have pointed out, the pike is possibly not the direct comparison to the 36 – but to be fair, that’s how it was originally marketed (particularly the mags), so I can see why folk do this. Also in fairness, the Pike is a great trail fork but as a bigger harder, faster hitting fork I wouldn’t waste my money rolling a turd in glitter – I’d buy those new Marzocchi 350ncr ti that keep popping up in classifieds; a light ti coil spring with an impeccable damper & robust chassis – what’s not to like? I say this because that’s exactly what I bought after my Pike disappointment and simply cannot fault them.

Mildred – How does that Marz compare to the 55 RC3 ti?

I’m happy enough with my Lyrik, just curious whether they managed to recapture the magic.

Have to say my 2015 36s are absolutely superb, best air fork I’ve used by a mile and not that far off the mighty mico coil lyrik… Shitey axle aside anyway. Also they look pretty.

Really not convinced about this- why would they keep replacing CSUs and forks under warranty if they just had to torque up the caps?

It’s not exclusive to RS right now it’s RS that have an issue with it so the fact that Fox have had it in the past doesn’t really signify.

Agreed – on all points. SRAM were pretty open with the issues at races (which is where both mine were replaced at UKGE events).

The Marz mentioned above would have been a slightly leftfield option, although there were a fair few reports of the stanchion coatings wearing very quickly. They are probably a good prospect now Fox are backing them.

I always rated my old BOS Deville’s, from a purely performance perspective they were/are one of the best feeling forks out there. They also had their share of creaking issues though. A used Deville assuming all working correctly is a decent, safe prospect though IMO, as they are easily serviceable and fixable now. The biggest issue is the lack of clearance on the 650b fork (and no decent 29″ option).

I’m running a 140mm Fox 34 on my Fuel & it really does feel like the 36 in comparable damping performance. It’s a ‘very’ light fork though – we will see how it lasts a season of racing Enduro & DH on (to be fair, it will be interesting enough to see how a 25lb 29″ trail bike will last as well, but that’s a different story).

Lots of choice out there, which is a good thing at least 🙂

mildred – I have been scouting out those as well, can’t find anything to say if you can reduce the travel on them though?

You can’t reduce the travel on the coil version.

Really not convinced about this- why would they keep replacing CSUs and forks under warranty if they just had to torque up the caps?

Because once they have started to creak you cannot stop it. Also reports of creaking Pike seem to have become far less these days.

My current and previous Pikes don’t creak, so not fussed about that. I did notice a huge increase in lateral stiffness and grip going from Pikes to 36s on my 26″ bike. At the time I remember thinking cornering felt like going from a regular compound to a super tacky front tyre. I wonder if torque caps on my front hub would stiffen up the pike a bit in that respect..

They do feel wooden off the top and small bump is not that great but you can work around that and make it far, far better

sorry to hijack but @rick draper – what has your solution been with making the 36’s less wooden and better on the small bump. I’ve not been able to dial out with the damping or air pressure (unless I go far too low)

sorry to hijack but @rick draper – what has your solution been with making the 36’s less wooden and better on the small bump. I’ve not been able to dial out with the damping or air pressure (unless I go far too low)

You need to make the negative air volume bigger. Depending on what model of fork you have will determine if thats possible or not.

You need to make the negative air volume bigger. Depending on what model of fork you have will determine if thats possible or not.

How do you go about that? Doesn’t sound like a home mechanic job? 2017 float 36 RC2’s

Mildred – How does that Marz compare to the 55 RC3 ti?

That’s a difficult question… they’re different yet as good, and more “on trend”.

What I mean is they’re as good when it’s fast repeated hits, drops and jumps, but more supportive off the top – slightly firmer spring weight I think. They take longer to bed in though and have a bit of stiction. That goes soon enough and you’re left with a very well behaved supportive fork.

I’m fairly heavy at 99kg fully kitted and although the fork works well enough its helped by adding 20psi air preload. On the 55 this made them a bit reluctant to move into their travel and you lost that small bump sensitivity so I always ran them without air but on the 350 this is less noticeable.

To put it another way, without air – very similar but more supportive than the rc3ti v2, but with a smidgen of air they’re like the original Deville. I cant actually think of a better compliment to them.

How do you go about that? Doesn’t sound like a home mechanic job? 2017 float 36 RC2’s

Unless you are pretty competent and have the tools needed I would not recommend trying it.