Looking for fast singletrack ripper that can jump and ride hard with 120 on front, mast keep with the FS guy’s.
I do have an Inbred and it’s just not that (nice on slow tech rides), I had the SS 456 it’s fast on DH but not a good jumper/kicker, very stable maybe even too stable.
I need a “fun” bike, I have an Intense SS2 for the big stuff and a Ti 29″ SS for the long stuff.
I only want to use 120 fork (you don’t need more then that to have fun).
Only HT only steel 😉
Thanks

Only know about the Soul but 120mm is the sweet spot and it keeps up with the FS if you ride it hard. And it’s definitely a ‘grinner’
I love mine. The FS stays at home now…

Thanks
How does it jump?
Is it easy to bany?

Soul all day long, alot more expensive than the 456, but vaue for money id get the 456, Piglet too numb and no feel to it. but if money was not an issue, its a no brainer, the Soul. 😀
i take it its steel you are looking for, iv got a 456C, ubar light and amazing to ride, strong,can take a battering, plenty of flex and costs less than the Soul.

I started a thread similar to this which has some helpful suggestions.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hardtail-mtb-geometry#post-2568154

If you can afford it a Soul, all day long.

But get some dust sheets for the other bikes, pending their sale. 🙂

I think you have to be over 30 to own a Soul 🙂

I am 50, so I can own a Soul 😉

If your over 50 you can now ride a Ventana.

Cove Handjob anyone, frikkin love mine

Graham1975, I had a carbon frame “Ibis Tranny” but I prefer the simplicity of steel.
If I will not find the right frame I may go for the 456C, it looks great.

Mate can jump his steel 456 no problem. I like my 456 use it for all day rides but got 140mm up front.

Sanderson Blitz? Can run up to 140 forks but I run mine with 125 and I’m able to keep up with most full sussers on the trails…

(Got my frame mail order with a decent discount, so not too spendy.)

The 456C frame is lighter than the Ti version by 100g esku, i must say i love good quality steel frames, i adore the Tranny but looks way too nice to use one, especially for my type of ridding, they are a frame that should sit on a mantlepiece rather than ridden.

Yes the Tranny is a frame… no words can describe, it was my first SS, only when I moved to 29″ SS I sold it.
I been with it on DH slops, rocky terrain and just everywhere, It’s a great frame but absolutely no FUN frame.
The only reason I didn’t get the 456C is the fork, I do have a 150 REV’ that can be nice on it but this gonna be my last option, I want some work for my 120 REBA (20mm’ max’).

BFe?

or a smallish 456? I’ve run 18″ and 16″ 456s and the smaller frame is definitley more nimble when jumping/chucking it about

How tall are you reggiegasket?
BFe is not for 120.

BFe is not for 120.

Yes it is, I use 100mm on mine.

I didn’t think the Soul was designed for much jumping ?

It seems that the geometry of the BFe with 120 fork will be more of an XC bike not an AM or fun bike.

I see no votes for the Piglet, Is it because its a new bike or just its not good enough, I like Brant work.

DMR Trailstar perhaps, if you’re not too tall? 71 degree head angle so it shouldn’t be “too stable” – mine certainly feels more alive than the BFe I had. I use a Pike on mine and it seems to ride the best with them set at around 125mm but I wind out to 140 for dh as I feel more confident with that. Great fun trail bike and the 16″ one jumps really well – it’s like a big bmx 🙂

Is it on the heavy side or the light side of the scale?

I see no votes for the Piglet, Is it because its a new bike or just its not good enough, I like Brant work.

It’s only been available for about a week, no?

Tom
Sorry 71 degree too scary on fast trails 😳

NS Surge 2? Mine is fun, really short CS too.

Shortest forks it takes are 120mm, ~68* HA at that length. I’m a BMXer, take the bike on day rides and ride it just fine, jumping at BMX tracks. It’s a bit heavy, on the cheap side of things.

NS Surge2 available only at July, I am hot now 😆

BFe and Soul are identical geometry just one’s tougher than the other.

Swung a leg over a Piglet the other weekend and it felt pretty sorted if you like Brant’s uber long top tube ethos. I don’t particularly being a bit short to really get on with 16″ on-ones but a bit big for the 14″ frames.

So I bought a Dialed bikes Prince Albert myself to replace an Inbred – couldn’t be happier with it. Might be worth considering a Holeshot? That would be fun.

Charge Blender?

However I don’t see that steel is always going to be the pinacle for grin inducing fun. A Cove Stiffee is going to be very hard to beat at the fork length you are talking about. Mine was a blast to ride on techy jumpy stuff.

Where is Brant???
What can you say about the Piglet.

Tasso, I had many Alu frame, I am not from England, I ride a lot at the desert on rocky terrain, so no more Alu.

Cotic angle thingy

HA:69.4
Seat:72.4

Piglet
HA:68.5
Seat:74.5

Both sets of figures are for a 120mm fork – sagged.

Edit: My thread from a few days ago, thinking the Piglet may still have it…

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/alternatives-to-a-piglet

It sounds like the piglet is going to be more what you are after if nothing else other than the slacker head angle.

But on the other hand, having ridden a 16″ Soul back to back with my Small PA running a very similar setup I’d say the Soul/Befe is not as likely to inspire airborne antics as something shorter. The Cotic and I’d imagine the Piglet too will really come into their own carving singletrack.

No idea why riding in the desert would make steel any more desireable than an aluminium alloy. Does it soften or something?

I have a 456 and a Cotic simple both with 130 and 125 mm forks

The 456 is a good bike but the back end is a bit harsh compared to the simple and it does make you ride like a holigan

but bottom line is I want a Soul the cotic simple is just nice very very nice

if you like Brant’s uber long top tube ethos.

With the long top tube, I am effectively forcing people to use 50 or 60mm stems to sharpen handling up if they’re going to do the “size by overal reach” thing. People stick 90’s on things that I’d rather they used 50’s on – and that’s a difference of 1.5in on the top tube or thereabouts.

The seat angle keeps the front end down, and the short stem works with the slack head angle to keep things quick yet stable.

Tasso, on rocky area you do feel the difference, I had Banshee, Salsa, Kona and many other Alu frames and after some miles it start to hurt.
On steel or Carbon I can ride 50 miles with no problem.

I see that most of the vote is to the Soul.

Golden Delicious mmm…

I just didn’t quite get it though Brant. Bought a tiny Inbred having played around with stems on 16″ version and finding that not quite as nice as a Soul (which was shorter) and regretted going to the very small frame on anything of long duration. As you say I ended up using a long stem but that really didn’t suit.

So the Dialled with a 90 mm stem now feels better to me than my mates Soul that I had been using as a bench mark. That kind of took me by surprise.

Can’t knock your old frames for price and VFM. Cotic’s always quite a bit more. The main thing is though that the Inbred, Soul and PA are great fun to ride and the differences are so small that unless you ride them back to back with similar setups it’s hard to justify spending more on one over the other. I’m keen to have a proper blat on Pootles Piglet as soon as she gets over the new bike protectiveness.
Felt nice on a car park spin last week and it got many an admiring comment from our mates. Hey, I don’t even like green!

Tasso
You are lucky to have friends with nice bikes to compare, in my area I am the only stupid to ride HT (except the SS guys).
So for me each frame is a new test, and mostly I buy frames by the geometry.
In the beginning I was focused on the Piglet, but because I did ride Brant’s Inbred and 456SS I have the feeling that the front will not be too weightless… and light front is one of the most important keys for fun bike, maybe the 456 is better in that area but I didnt tried it.
I really do love the Inbred and the 456SS but not for that purpose.

I think you are saying much the same as what I felt about The Inbred. Don’t think the Soul will be massively different though. It is nicer in many peoples opinion, but not that much. A lot of that I would put down to the very light, zippy and forgiving feeling it gives rather than having rock steady front end feel. More scalpel than battering ram.

Thanks to you all,
you helped me a lot.

I ride 160mm fork on my 456C and suprisingly i dont have to drop the fork to climb, its superb uphilling and awesome downhill, i get on with it alot better than the Ragley Bluepig, maybe i just think the Bluepig is way way too heavy for a do it all hardtail, fine for trips to Morzine and Les gets but thats about it. used basically the same parts on my just as cheap 456C frame and lost 3Lb and prefer it by a long shot, so im chuffed to bits, never thought id say that about an On One. 😯
Also the 456C looks far better than the Bluepig, hate the massive gussett in the Bluepig, dont really know why it has 1, the Cotics dont have them and they pass the CEN tests, maybe its because the Cotics use better steel.