One of the best things about a jones is Jeff. He first caught my eye when he almost won (top 3 or 4) a US DH race on a home made 29er. Everyone else had suspension and armour and stuff.

It's really great to see someone show us another way to build a bike. Not everyone wants a FSR / generic bike.

Also the guy is right nice and looks like a tramp – for me that's more important than graphics and adverts. 🙂 jeff and his bikes are sticking it to the man. Is it the jimi Hendrix of bikes?

Now, if (2)6 turned up to be (2)9,
I don't mind, I don't mind.
If all the hippies cut off their hair,
I don't care, I don't care.
Did, 'cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you.

So he's designed it to look so different just for the sake of it ? So the bike is a bit like a Goth then?

And again, just what is the point of it?

do we buy bikes for others, or ourselves?

After a few recent Jones threads passed by without the normal slew of "fugly" and "why" type comments. I was beginning to get worried that the STW massif where softening. Its good to see that it was just a temporary glitch and that normal service has resumed.

Enjoy the bike futon. It's perfect for surrey hills. Drop me an email if you want an ad-hoc Jones meet over Christmas (Swinley or Surrey hills suits me)

the frame looks bent to me! (btw not jealous at all, honest!) 😕

Love to have a go on one.

Not convinced by the rigid front end bit, but I love the concept behind the space frame design – laterally stiff, vertically compliant.

Don't really get the bars either, but that's just me.

Sure the geometry is different, but it seems to work pretty well by all accounts from people who've ridden them.

I'd never really be able to justify the outlay for a custom JJ/Merlin one, but it would be interesting to see what a Taiwanese licensed version came in at, price wise.

Rob – Why do you bother?
We all know you don't like Jones' but your coments on every "Jones" post don't do you any favours.

I think the layback seatpost is to get around the 29er problem of how to get a short chainstay, having enough seatpost/tyre clearence and having the the front derailier within shimano's angle limits

I don't care so much about the haters who are up front with their replies, at least you can see who they are and call them out on their opinions, if you can be bothered – it's the sly tags that are put the thread that are really sad -such as "Bloody Awful" and "more money than sense"- and childish.

The Jones already has a short, for a 29er, chainstay at about 17".

futon, **** em all mate….
your money, you choose…..
feckers who post negative about peoples bike choice are usually tight arsed **** that wanna take all their money to the grave with em….

like viv said, spend, spend, spend………. 😉

Are all jones bikes 29ers? Also what sizes do they come in for a non custom build? I like the more traditional diamond shaped ones, big money though.

jeff and his bikes are sticking it to the man

yeah, about as much as RATM's Xmas single did
😉

Yep – they're all 29ers, they come in two sizes, a 23" TT and a 24" TT. Mine is a 23".

wow just caught up on the comments! some people on here should be ashamed.

i'll look out for you on the south downs and say hi.

I actually took that tag the completely opposite way. It says "bloody awfully nice bike!" I think they mean they really like it.Well if it was my bike,thats the way i would be reading it.

Regarding the front fork…… all the reviews Ive read comment on its stiffness and precision…… feels that way to me too.

yeah and ive heard exactly the same from someone that had a ride of jeffs own one.he loved it.i totally agree.I believe you and Jeff when you say its super rigid and does things better than just about anything else out there.Its brilliant. Its just the bad link that i was getting at previously.The size of the wheel,the torsional stiffness etc of the fork, the amazing pin point accuracy… but not quite complete when you put a quick release hub in there with a skewer with a rod something around 4mm thick tensioned under cam action to ..well,deal with something in the midst of things that could have been better through choice of hub and dropout system.

The arguement could be that on this type of bike he didnt want a 15mm or 20mm bolt through system as its not that style of bike and not burly enough.He might say its not anything like a hard hitting trail bike/all mountain bike.. so there was no reason to put such a system up front. He might also argue that its too heavy where its not needed.but you couldnt come out with such a statement as people will then ask and smirk at why you went to all the bother in the first place of making one of the most torsionally stiffest forks ever.

would you,jeff and anyone else disagree on that?

I wrote the last reply and made you think i was thinking you had a Ti skewer in there.I didnt.sorry.I just brought up the Ti skewer as an example of how bad the skimpy ones could feel in suspension forks.Ive got a fully rigid bike right now that had a ti skewer in it and i was glad to get a good solid shimano steel one in there.definately noticable.

As for folk commenting on this bikes geometry,you cant.

You dont know what camera/lens etc was used to take the picture so its most likely slighty distorted.

Unless Futon has spent the same amount on a Tilt Shift lens as he has on this frame,or has a near perfect lens of some sort.. then its likely he would also agree that it doesnt quite look like it did through the naked eye.

I like it. Not because its niche or different, just because it looks awesome-sauce.

The comments on the tyre being too close to the pedals are a waste of time.scroll the picture to the right and align the framework of the shutter behind the bike to show you how vertically correct it is… now scoll left to see how plumb the right hand side of the shutter framework is. It appears to be kicked in at the bottom towards the bike.. hence the front wheel looking a bit kicked in too.

The bike is fine!

I like it! just out of interest what do they weigh in at?

Mr Nutt – They aren't as light as youd think.

I guess mine as a SS is about 25lbs with it's normal front wheel on. Jeff's aim wasn't light weight but the best ride quality.
http://www.jonesbikes.com/bike_design.html

Sorry – I didn't think the toe overlap question was serious – so, no there isn't any toe overlap 🙂

Off for walk on the beach, then christmas dinner.

Merry christmas everyone. XX

My toe overlap question was serious, simply genuine interst in an unusual bike. Like i said – its not for me but i'm sure my bike tastes would not be shared by all.

As for some of the comments i have read about this bike, they are obviously designed to offend, if you buy something so different from the norm and present it on here you have to expect some unusal responses.

I must be getting older, I find it an strangely attractive bike.

Either that, or because the of the wine I'm drinking the Bus has arrived and taken all the beautiful bikes away 😀

(I do like it)

Tails

There are some 26ers about but early ones. Don't know if he'd make them anymore but if it's custom you can have what you want.

Futon, Enjoy it, I agree with Jonclimber the steering is sharper with the standard wheel but I really like both.
Was thinking of a Surly Larry for the slightly more aggressive tread.

I like WTB weirwolfs in the mud, bizarrely predictable, but I agree once it gets deep traction is tough.

http://www.Chevincycles.com have a great deal on Panaracer Rampage's at the moment which are a good compromise, not too heavy, not quite a full mud tyre but agressive tread very good and roll pretty well, last well too, £20 each at the moment.

They can be made to be very light, sub 20lbs, but you need to throw some money at it and be SS. Things lke the bars etc aren't very light, but I trade the comfort.

That big tyre is less for comfort for me and more Traction and roll in the rocks, it's brilliant in rocky places where it just doesn't get 'trapped' as well as soaking up the chatter (relative of course, it's not a 6 in fork) but having said that the steering geometry remains the same so you keep the accuracy to steer it where you want rather than being forced down some lines as a result of the front end diving and twisting and the smaller tyres taking their own line!

We should get a register of all the owners going, any owners interested in such a thing, get in touch with me, email in profile.

And just for the record ref. an earlier, I think joke reply, it is not the stolen one (which was mine and is still out there somewhere with my beautiful 135mm phil wood hubs 🙁

Cheers for the help Chainline – I've been looking at the rampages – but actually – I'm coming round to the WWs – they're OK in mud as long as it's not really wet/slippery.

Went out for a spin today – great day for a ride – nice n sunny not too windy – perfect – WRONG. I was just getting onto the downs when my rear brake started making very juddery nasty sounds (plus a lot of very wrong feeling vibration) = my allegedly burly 10mm QR skewer had snapped clean through. Actually I'm probably lucky I discovered this whilst stationary – (I hate to think what might have happened under heavy braking at speed) – 🙁 = nice long walk home for me.

I've just ordered a Hope standard skewer conversion kit.

Personally I really like the look of them but never seen one in the flesh – can therefore make no objective comments, but am fascinated at the amount of posting generated – at least they get a response! Nice to see something really quite different. Enjoy your bike, bad luck on the skewer. If I make it along the South Downs in 2010 I'll say hello.

I see the STW "expert" are still spouting the same tired old lines.

I love them. Simon in the 'South East'* showed me his after my first ride back and I thought it was the nuts…

* Anti-theft statement

Do you need to take it to kwik-fit for a front tyre change? :p

Not my cup of tea and seems odd to spend so much on the frame/forks then not be able to finish it off properly but hey if you enjoy it that's what counts.

I thought I'd ask Jef about a bolt through front axel on the truss fork , this is his answer –

"The Truss fork is more than stiff enough. With the Wide front hub and dish less front wheel, the front end is even more precise. A Shimano QR, made properly tight, will clamp the axle between the dropouts rigidly."

http://jonesbikes.com/blog/?p=1174#comments

Looks like my Shimano QR is spot on. (unlike my rear QR)

I'm not sure what you mean by not finishing it properly.

Jeff wrote.. "A Shimano QR, made properly tight, will clamp the axle between the dropouts rigidly."

That is correct and i would agree that everything around it is super stiff etc.but what i was saying was for all the extra weight, you could have 15 or 20mm up front. on bikes we have built up with the same bars and stem.. the difference between a q/r version over the 20mm version was noticable from the off.we all agreed.it feels so much more direct.. yet still on the same build of lowers as other forks on other bikes.most folk gone to 20mm agree.why have fork manufacturers made 20mm options on some forks and done away with q/r all together on others? why have the fork manufacturers recently been filling in the missing link by adding 15 or 20mm?

because they know the score.they dont have a missing link.from the grips under the hands to the tyre on the ground.. its the most direct you can get.no point in skimping after wasting so much time and effort on everything else.

a lot of folk will be reading this and thinking "but its stiff enoughhhh!" and not getting the point along with all the effort hes gone to without finishing it off as well as it could have been.the rigidity of the fork and the time it takes to make over a conventional rigid fork shows that he was really going about making a stiff front end.. he wouldnt have done it just for the fun of it,so why stop half way and have such a good fork and such a monster of a wheel that can take on a bit more abuse in diffrent directions over a standard wheel… yet still rely on a skewer to do all that work?

One of the best bits about going to bolt thru is the peace of mind that a standard skewer isnt going to fail on you.you know the wheel is staying there! as you have just found out with the rear.thank god yer alright.

Martin,

One of the main elements of all that work and material is the nature of the stiffness. It is very stiff front to back, i.e. it does not flex back under braking, changing the geometry and steering even further that the dive may already have done or when hitting ruts etc, the steering remains accurate, likewise under braking the geometry is not changes and the bike reacts as normal meaning you can brake later and deeper into corners (caveat conditions permitting, as I said before it's not a 6in fork which has other advantages)

The 20mm axles etc are a response to minimise the twisting forces, I believe, on conventional forks and, as a past user, I can confirm are very effective in terms of steering accuracy. However the amount of additional weight in the lowers and axle etc is probably more than the additional triangulation in the Truss fork, which acts similarly to a triple clamp, for that specific purpose. The rest as I mentioned is to deliver stiffness in a different plane.

Its all interesting stuff and the different approaches work for different terrain and riders etc, good to have the discussion over a pint I say…

But the rear QR failed because the Axel part ie 10mm of solid metal failed!! It sheared right through. This was meant to be a burly part 🙁

I've now changed it over to a normal steel QR.

I'm beginning to think my Jones is jinxed – the 3" Spesh innertubes have failed on me, they split at the valve – what innertubes do you use with the Endomorph??

Anyhow – I had to go out for a ride yesterday on my old FSR – god what a world of difference!! I felt like the bike was sucking the life out of me – it felt slow, heavy, sluggish and squashy – I almost gave up on the ride LOL. I really do prefer the direct feel of a fully rigid bike.

What brand 10mm axle?

could you not tubeless the endomorph tyre?

Use Surly's own inner tubes, they weigh a ton though in your backpack.

I got a spare with mine this summer just in case I couldn't find them over here and I've only had one flat to fix so far.

More power to you mate. Saw something you liked, saved up, bought it built it and I hope you're now enjoying it. There's a strange mentality on here – perhaps jealousy – that seems to prevail when people choose to spend their money 'differently'. Comes up on what watch and what hi-fi threads too and a Jones frame seems to bring 'em out as well. I'd love to have a ride on one. Hope you enjoy riding it and owning it. I'd imagine the grin as you walk into the garage brings real pleasure too.

try 2.5 continetal DH tubes,ive done over 1600 miles with them no probs..nokians OK too…
folk have tried running endo`s tubeless but they always leak,even when coated with PVC..
yep as previously posted if you don ride what mainstream mags rate then folk on here get bitchy..funny thing is though when out riding (do they actually ride?) no one ever says anything to your face?,think the word is spineless…,
check out magic seaweed surf forum for some real dickhead forum users… 😀

Seconded on the Maxxis DH 2.5-2.7 tube, 1.5mm thick, works fine.

I've just realised my typing has been terrible!!!

Right – I've ordered some Maxis tubes – cheers for the info!

I think I said before and chainline has said it too, the 20mm hubs are to solve the problem of (lack of) tortional stiffness of suspension forks – a problem that the truss fork doesn't have – just look at the fork for a moment – it is designed to be tortionaly stiff – it doesn't need any extra help!

The failed axel was by NC17 – avoid at all costs!!

The Maxis DH tubes have finally turned up – CRIPES – they're heavy 464g!!! If they never puncture – they'll be worth it. Are the continental tubes any lighter???

Snow ride tomorrow. I'll post some pics.