Just received this from a friend. some of you may be aware of the couple killed earlier this hear whilst riding their tandem in Bristol.

I am helping my friend Kelly with a petition

Ross (Kelly’s brother) and his wife Clare were killed in Kingswood on their tandem bike. The bloke got 10 years in total for both their life’s and they think he will be out in 5 years. The petition is being supported by a local MP Chris Skidmore. The petition calls on the government to review and change sentencing guidelines for dangerous driving so that drivers who have previous convictions are give much longer and tougher penalties

The bloke had 69 previous convictions including 4 for dangerous driving and 11 for driving whilst disqualified, stealing cars and crashing into a tree, driving on the pavement, speeding of 70MPH in a 30MPH zone These convictions start in 1998!!!!

I would be most grateful if people could sign and support this, Kelly needs 100,000 signatures and this would trigger a debate in parliament.

Thanks

Done.

Done.

Is there any reason why people such as this aren’t tried for manslaughter?

Done and shared on facebook (it’s good for some things!)

Done.

Done

http://justice4rossandclare.com/

Done and yes manslaughter would seem an appropriate charge here

Clearly a danger to us all the ****

Done

EDIT – Can the Mods make this a sticky? Certainly a good cause..

Signed

can i point out the comments from alistair macdonald, leader of the North Eastern Circuit, said: “The losers from this bill will be law-abiding citizens on modest incomes who defend their homes against intruders, accidentally clip a cyclist in their cars, or who are simply among the many each year accused of crimes they haven’t committed.

Read more: http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Chris-Grayling-m-going-selling-courts/story-19133467-detail/story.html#ixzz2V9r1mTsG
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that senior lawyers think it is ok to run cyclists down…..

Thanks z1ppy for putting a direct link up, it just wouldn’t work from my pc

Signed.

signed too

Folk should also please consider signing the existing “Get Britain Cycling” petition, as it already has a very large backing and political support, and it includes recommendations about changing traffic laws and introducing harsher sentencing.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196

Done…

Is there any reason why people such as this aren’t tried for manslaughter?

Manslaughter is a tricky one to demonstrate isn’t it?
Dont you have to show that shomeone acted with the intention of doing serious harm, but not the intent to kill, that their actions caused death when they were ‘Only’ trying to injure.

A driver will more than likely claim they had no intention to cause injury let alone a death, and that the incoident was a pure Accident, This may well be the case most of the time.

You would need to demonstrate the vehicle was being used as a weapon by the driver specifically with the aim of injuring a cyclist, but resulting in their Death to actually get “manslaughter” to stick, which is tougher than going for a lesser driving offence.

no problems signing that, and good luck, its about time some things started to have an impact, cheers steve

mrmo – Member
….can i point out the comments from alistair macdonald, leader of the North Eastern Circuit, said: “The losers from this bill will be law-abiding citizens on modest incomes who defend their homes against intruders, accidentally clip a cyclist in their cars,

if you consider that the killer of Audrey Fyfe claimed he only clipped her bike and that sentence only went to appeal at the deadline then that is a very unfortunate or very deliberate choice of words
– very sad

alistair macdonald, leader of the North Eastern Circuit, said: “The losers from this bill will be law-abiding citizens on modest incomes who defend their homes against intruders, accidentally clip a cyclist in their cars..”

and how does that happen if you’re driving safely with consideration and attention?? Defending homes or wrongly accused etc is totally different.

(Signed)

This vid from CTC as part of their broader campaign shows a quite stark story of current system/priorities. Some images of nasty [healed] injuries.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhylzlKDYbM&feature=youtu.be&a[/video]

Not surprising really, but shows the level of a **** given – pertains more to the need for change more than specific case in OP.

Done

Done, the tandem deaths were awful and I was amazed after the list of sustained criminality came out that the driver wasn’t already inside.

Done…truly terrible thing to have happened.

Done!

Done

done

mrmo – Member
that senior lawyers think it is ok to run cyclists down…..

I’m not sure that is really what he was saying. As a lawyer he should be smart enough to have seen how what he said might be twisted, or represented – but the point he was making was that there are circumstances where people who would never expect to find themselves in court are suddenly in the dock and at risk of loosing their liberty. Those people deserve a fair trial, and legal aid is (was) part of that. Having legal representation doesn’t mean you will ‘get off’.

Manslaughter is a tricky one to demonstrate isn’t it?
Dont you have to show that shomeone acted with the intention of doing serious harm, but not the intent to kill, that their actions caused death when they were ‘Only’ trying to injure.

no you (in this case) would just have had to show that their was gross negligence such that a serious accident was forseable.

Whilst the deaths were tragic (i) there is already the potential to bring manslaughter charges as an alternative – DbDD was only introduced because in some cases manslaughter was too hard to prove. (ii) it is very rare for the upper limit of the sentence to be reached – which makes it difficult to justify new laws.

The petition – like most e-petitions isn’t very helpfully worded though:

“We call upon the government to review and change sentencing guidelines for dangerous driving so that drivers who have previous convictions for dangerous driving, including driving under the influence of drink and drugs, or have been disqualified from driving, and continue to commit dangerous driving offences, causing death or injury as a result, be given far longer and tougher sentences than currently exist.”

(i) The government doesn’t set sentencing guidelines. They are set independently.
(ii) Previous convictions are already taken into account, and as was the case here increase the likely sentence.
(iii)drink and drugs already increase the sentence.
(iv)driving whilst disqual already increases the sentence.
(v) the maximum sentence was imposed. The petition would need to be asking for a change to the legislation so the penalty was higher – not the guidance on how to apply the penalty, which seems to actually be working ok.

As a lawyer he should be smart enough to have seen how what he said might be twisted, or represented

also sits as a Recorder which means he will no doubt become a Judge soon

think he was appealing to peoples fears of being in court for “clipping a cyclist” when everyone knows that things like that are “just accidents that happen” and good legal defence is required to waste police and court time to allow people to continue to drive badly or dangerously without fear of the consequences – think I would prefer it if people had to defend there own actions in court in cases like this – smart enough to know appealing to the masses

incidentally a story over on road.cc – CPS offered no evidence on the charge of attempted grievous bodily harm and the Judge gave sentence which was at bottom end of guidelines for dangerous driving despite the act being deliberate

http://road.cc/content/news/84832-suspended-sentence-driver-who-used-camper-van-weapon-ram-cyclist-road-rage-attack

Signed

Bump

alistair macdonald, leader of the North Eastern Circuit, said: “The losers from this bill will be law-abiding citizens on modest incomes who defend their homes against intruders, accidentally clip a cyclist in their cars, or who are simply among the many each year accused of crimes they haven’t committed.

He’s easily findable with Google; does anyone think it’s worth writing him a gently-worded email? I was thinking of something along the lines of:

Dear Mr. Macdonald,

I write regarding your comments on legal aid, and must take issue with what you describe as otherwise law-abiding citizens who “accidentally clip a cyclist in their cars”.

I feel your comments trivialise poor driving near vulnerable road users. As you will be aware, the Highway Code para 163 advises giving as much room when overtaking cyclists as one would when overtaking a car; one should not “accidentally clip” a cyclist who is given adequate space. In these collisions, the cyclist may be seriously injured or killed, whereas the driver is unlikely to be harmed.

Furthermore, “clip” is an emotive term at present – I refer you the well-publicised Fyfe case, where the driver involved admitted that he had “clipped” her rear wheel.

I would be grateful if you would consider the above.

Yours etc.

Any comments/amendments?

Done.

BUT

I’m not convinced that having stiffer penalties for drivers who kill is synonymous with making conditions safer or more pleasant for cycling.

I live just up the road from where this tragedy happened and it’s a dire place to cycle. Cars parked in cycle lanes, disappearing cycle lanes, pinch points galore, and quiet ways which become rat runs at school/commuter time.

Under these circumstances, cyclists are a tiny minority who are treated with contempt. I honestly get about one close pass or left hook every journey on average. Buses struggle to get anywhere on time due to congested roads. And while I think it’s the epitome of f–kwittery, sadly I can see how someone who loses their licence may feel that they have no alternative but to keep on driving.

Oh and when I emailed Chris Skidmore MP asking for traffic calming measures to be installed in the wake of the tragedy, I didn’t even get a response. 👿

signed.
tbh,I don’t hold with prison for the sort of people who commit these type of crimes,with their obvious disregard for other peoples lives.
why should society pay for there ‘HM hotel stays’? spend the money on traffic calming,cycle paths,and education.
fry them. yes,I’ll press the button.
Sorry if this isn’t PC enough for STW.But it needs to be said.