ok…before I start I realise I may upset a lot of people but here goes. There seems to be a huge increase in the number of organised events, charity or otherwise these days. Do we want to commercialise every weekend and ribbon of tarmac? Have people completely lost the ability to open an OS map and plan a ride themselves with a few friends? As a cyclist and motorist I feel we’re in a tenuous position between getting support and locking up popular roads most weekends over the summer. Has the outdoors become one big pure gym? I guess if you do the maths you can see the attraction….

I wouldn’t like to live in the vicinity of Box Hill.

It’s great, isn’t it. All those folk motivated to get outdoors and exercise instead of sitting on their arses watching overpaid sports “stars” on TV or driving to the local Toby Carvery for lunch and popping into the shopping centre to spend more of their cash on tat.

I wouldn’t like to live in the vicinity of Box Hill.

Me neither. Have you seen the house prices in Surrey?

In terms of the image of the sport some events are giving ammunition to the anti bike lunatics. But I am of the view that in our own special little islander way if it wasn’t sportives it would be club runs, if it wasn’t club runs it would be one bloke in flouro gear and a ponytail, if it wasn’t him it would be a mother on a Dutch roadster. The issue is not the events it is the blind intolerance and selfishness of a minority (in whole population terms) of motorists and nimby’s.

There’s still bucket loads of people out following a map.

Event organisers and participants need to show a bit of sympathy to residents and businesses and those who live in nice areas need to learn to share better and be more accepting of others leisure choices.

There will always be some folk who have neither the time nor inclination to plan a route. Just follow the arrows and feel reassured that refreshments will be available en route as will be mechanical and medical assistance.

Do we want to commercialise every weekend and ribbon of tarmac? Have people completely lost the ability to open an OS map and plan a ride themselves with a few friends?

No and No but organising something, getting more people out and moving, introducing many to cycling and geting more motorists used to mass cycling is a good thing.

@scotroutes, i suspect that what we see up here that seems great is not so great in other areas of the country.

Sure i agree that the population needs to be more active and cycling is a great way to do it, but even as a cyclist i’d be a bit fed up with it if every weekend a trip out in the car meant being behind an endless stream of mammils.

@cinnamon_girl
Spot on with the refreshments. Its nice to be able to go out for a long ride without having to worry about where to fill bottles. Although in the areas where these events are causing friction, finding bottle stops is not as tricky as in more rural spots.

garage-dweller – I do have some sympathy with Box Hill locals when they’re subjected to sportives/large groups of riders every weekend. There needs to be a discussion between residents, event organisors, local clubs, the Police etc. Without addressing this relations will never improve.

New Forest:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15035931.POWERLESS___Park_chiefs_can_do_nothing_to_control_mass_cycling_events/?commentSort=score

but even as a cyclist i’d be a bit fed up with it if every weekend a trip out in the car meant being behind an endless stream of mammils.

You tried driving across somewhere like the lakes on a summer weekend, your stuck behind an endless stream of cars polluting their way from view point care park to view point car park….

Mike – doesn’t make it more acceptable though. I think as cyclists we need to be bigger than that type of attitude.

You tried driving across somewhere like the lakes on a summer weekend, your stuck behind an endless stream of cars polluting their way from view point care park to view point car park….

And Cheddar Gorge, Loch Ness, increasingly, the whole of the NC500. I’m sure there are many other examples. I’d much rather folk rode them than drove them. Maybe when e-bikes catch on…

Not sure what you mean by acceptible I was mearly pointing out the irony of the statement which goes back to assumption that car is king, it should be easy to organise a road route and advise traffic to be diverted accordingly. Most major cities manage it for various events. Adelaide is currently shutting loads of roads for the Tour down Under.
Perhaps the future is clsoed road events, no stree of cars etc. and no hassle for the drivers.

It’s not that simple if you live in a densely populated area such as the South. There needs to be discussions as I stated above, perceptions need to be challenged and it will take effort.

Edit: I do think that entry numbers also needs to be discussed. Bigger is not always better.

perceptions need to be challenged and it will take effort.

How many years has that been running for? As it’s a charity event there is more acceptance.

My point being things can be done, yes more consultation but just trying not to affend car drivers who will be offended anyway seems counter productive. This year down here in Oz we have roads shut all over Adelaide for the Tour Down Under and peoples race stages, countless closed road crits, the Great Ocean Road weekend race next week will close stuff, the Melbourne GP closes part of the city for 5 days, we had a Tour e’tape event here too. Simple thing is to organise it and do it well that is the best way.
In many ways the south needs to stop being quite so precious.

What I would really like to see is involving the community in which an event takes place. Rather than having 1,000 people literally drive in, ride through then drive out etc, let’s see a concerted effort whereby local businesses can benefit by offering accommodation, meals etc. Importantly let’s see a push to encourage those from that community including children to get on a bike, have demo bikes available, cycle instructors available for explaining how to use gears, the Highway Code etc.

The South isn’t being precious, we’re all tired of endless house-building that offers no provision for cyclists leading to more and more cars on the road.

Edit: it’s changing perceptions. Let communities see that cycling does bring positives rather than being viewed as cyclists who cause inconvenience. Some of the profits from a sportive should be given to the community that’s hosted the event, either for them to give to a local charity or for cycle training.

It’s not that simple if you live in a densely populated area such as the South. There needs to be discussions as I stated above, perceptions need to be challenged and it will take effort.

Edit: I do think that entry numbers also needs to be discussed. Bigger is not always better.
It really helps when organisers actually bother to forewarn residents and users of a certain area that a mass event is going to take place. It’s all that’s needed. After all the SE is pretty damn crowded…

It’s a demand led market with a few big organising companies exploiting it as much as they can, combined with more local events that have taken the place of the “fun run” due to the rise in the popularity of cycling.

Where I live there are probably 8 per year on my local roads, i.e. I’m likely to see them if I’m riding on the day. It’s not excessive but I can see how some areas would be worse.

I started road riding by taking part in the bike leg of the relay London Triathlon (for charity), then went through the process of riding big, branded events, then deciding they didn’t make sense once I was happy finding my own routes and sourcing own food. I’ll still enter events that I see as particular challenges, but I’m perfectly happy riding for 6-7 hours alone now.

As a new rider I wanted exactly what CG said – a marked route, food stops, support if I needed it. As I’m more experienced and confident now I don’t need the reassurance or support and I’ve decided I don’t like big events.

I reckon last year was “peak sportive”. A few events got cancelled and one company went bust.

cinnamon_girl – Member
garage-dweller – I do have some sympathy with Box Hill locals when they’re subjected to sportives/large groups of riders every weekend. There needs to be a discussion between residents, event organisors, local clubs, the Police etc. Without addressing this relations will never improve.

I have very limited sympathy, firstly there are very few box hill residents, it’s not particularly heavily populated and has always been a spot where walkers, cyclist, drivers and motorcyclists have congregated. Furthermore the lanes around the area are not really full of vast amounts of traffic, jams in dorking seem to be solely caused by the middle classes queuing for the lidl car park rather than being stuck behind an endless stream of mamils, of indeed mafils.
My sympathy is further diminished by the vast that vast tranches of Surrey residents who choose to drive in to London five or six days a week, they may be doing this for work, I cycle in Surrey for leisure, why would their polluting and traffic jams be anymore important than people exercising in the countryside?

Live and let live would be nice

As a resident local to box hill – no sympathy required thanks. It is a beautiful place to live with great riding and great community on my doorstep. and I like many locals cycle to work in town or get the train. Driving in is just daft so no idea what that comment was about. And there are no noticeable queues in dorking. If there were it would be for waitrose no lidl thank you very much.

I think c_g is making a very sensible point. Consultation and involvement with the local community is the only way forward to change perceptions and gain support.

And to drag it screaming and kicking back to the OPs point, people are getting out. Most people don’t rock up for a big charity/sportive event without having ridden in training. Those rides are the benefit of the big events.

As a resident local to box hill – no sympathy required thanks. It is a beautiful place to live with great riding and great community on my doorstep. and I like many locals cycle to work in town or get the train. Driving in is just daft so no idea what that comment was about. And there are no noticeable queues in dorking. If there were it would be for waitrose no lidl thank you very much.

I live in Wimbledon beautiful place to live great riding and community on my door, every morning there’s a great procession of traffic coming of the a3 a24 and the a217 into the area, the big roads that come up from Surrey 😉

Whenever I come down from leith hill of a Sunday on my mamil steed, there always seems to be a jam on the one way system and the town centre always looks griefy, as we peel off towards box hill. I try to keep my wife away from waitrose, obviously I’m not the right stuff for Dorking 😀

There seems to be a huge increase

Depends on your frame of reference. Theres a perceived increase compared to the ‘bugger all’ that recently preceded it – but in the 50s there were in the region of 150,000 cyclists riding competitively on the roads every weekend, in the 70’s and 80’s the Milk Race was televised (and not on some backwater digital channel) and so was Cyclocross. Then Raleigh killed british cycling the the Chopper and we’re now on a slow return towards a normal amount of cycling – in terms of participation, organisation and spectator interest .

if every weekend a trip out in the car meant being behind an endless stream of mammils.

(with the exception of motorways) roads are free to use by everyone and everything. Children can run around on them, so can the insane and the drunk and the reckless. Me and two friends fell asleep on a road once. Animals birds and insects have free reign too and they don’t even pay tax. But…. by special arrangement some people can obtain a license and meet a number of obligation and drive a motor vehicle on a road too. What they don’t seem to learn when being trained and tested to obtain that license is what the word ‘license’ actually means and that its a restriction not a freedom.

I think c_g is making a very sensible point. Consultation and involvement with the local community is the only way forward to change perceptions and gain support.

MoreCash – looks as though you’re the only person agreeing with me! 😀

The sense of entitlement that some are demonstrating is worrying, confrontation is not the way to achieve anything.

The sense of entitlement to use roads we are legally allowed to be on or is it the nimby motorists sense of entitlement?

All users, collectively, are at fault kilo.

Just been ‘fact-finding’. I can do this as I’ve had to stop riding. 😥 Wiggle organise a huge number of sportives throughout the country. Using as an example the ‘controversial’ New Forest event, it includes rides on both a Saturday and Sunday taking place in both Spring and Autumn. Maximum rider limit is 1,000 although they’re trying to increase this. Granted Race HQ is on a private estate. £31.50 doesn’t sound unreasonable for an entry.

My question is what are Wiggle doing to encourage folk to take up cycling?

Another question – is it fair that residents within the vicinity of the routes are inconvenienced for both days of a weekend, twice in a year?

Hit me with your replies!

Cg – how does their inconvenience compare to the mayhem that resulted from 2 months of roadworks at a busy intersection that affected thousands of drivers twice a day, every day. And the irony is that the roadworks were to install a cycle path that in all honesty I can’t see many people choosing to use.

Wherever you live there are always the occasional inconvenience, a few bikes for a couple of weekends isn’t the end of the world.

thepurist – comparisons serve no useful purpose in this discussion, imo obviously.

As much as I detest regulation, perhaps there should be a voluntary code whereby organisors communicate with each other. Is it necessary to communicate with the local Council/County Council/Police before a date is set?

Comparisons such as above are pointless. They are both a bloody nuisance if they affect your pleasure.
I think its important that we, as cycling fans, accept that other don’t like us in large number and they have as much right to that as we do to want to do it.
I will also upset a few by saying that its is the undoubted right of anyone to have a greater say about their local environment that any outsider.
Of course compromise is best. I think commercialised vents are horrid. They have one aim, to make money. That in itself is laudable but that always is adverse to others interests. I loathe the mini downhill events here in the FoD. The noise, the influx of cars, the total lack of care for the Forest, all to make a few bob. How ever they make money so many don’t care and as they are away from people there is no objection. Each to their own.
This is all a symptom of our society. I was thinking the same about another thread here yesterday.
Nowadays people are selfish and self centred. They would rather pay and turn up rather than help to run an event. Off road motorcycling is a good example. The non club based commercial events such as Hare and Hounds where you can often enter on the day have taken over the traditional events such as a decent time card enduro. Why? Its easy to do and bugger those who put some effort in. So the organisers get fed up and those who want to turn it into a living take over with money being the motivator.
People, sadly, are like that today. I want it now. I don’t care a toss about the greater good so I’ll drive a hundred miles, spilling out fumes to ride my bike or I’ll buy a coffee in a paper cup and bin it rather than wait for a reusable china one.

I’ll play devils advocate here and ask “just how has cycling improved over the last decade?”
Lets think. The roads and woods are busier, the image has declined in respect of the non cycling public. That good is it?
Olympic golds have no affect on my cycling. Millions spent on cycle ways don’t either. All those potential couch potatoes now riding bikes actually hinder it!
Makes you wonder just where we are going I reckon.

[Another question – is it fair that residents within the vicinity of the routes are inconvenienced for both days of a weekend, twice in a year?[/quote]
Yes people, get inconvenienced by all sorts of stuff, Ride London impacts on me, Wimbledon tennis snares very thing up, it’s just modern day life. Not sure you’ve shown how cyclists are at fault. Sorry you’re not riding atm.

Try living in a city centre. You are then inconvenienced all day, every day by other road users, quite often by folk that don’t live there, don’t spend money there and don’t contribute at all, other than by adding to the pollution as they make their way to and from work.

its is the undoubted right of anyone to have a greater say about their local environment that any outsider.

Really. Where is that written down? Is it in section 1 of the Nimby charter?

what are the regulations around holding an event? (I’m not talking about a closed road affair). Can anyone just make one up, advertise it and start counting the cash?

what are the regulations around holding an event?

Non really – public roads are open to everyone – you don’t have to notify anyone / the authorities unless…..

the road will be closed
its a demonstration against someone or something
it publicises a campaign (so in the case of a charity event you might be raising awareness instead of funds)
marks or commemorates an event

With the exception of a road closure for any of the other situations you’re only required to give advanced notice so that people know whats going on. You don’t need their permission they just need fair warning to be ready.

Thanks Maccruiskeen. That’s what I thought. Perhaps some form of regulation should be in place…

Perhaps some form of regulation should be in place…

To control people deciding to go from one place to another?

Where does that end?

I’m not under any kind of curfew and neither are you.

Would you put the same regulations of people gathering for a popular persons funeral? All travelling to or from the same concert or sports event? All going to beach on the same day because the sun is shining? All going to the January sales? A Hen Night pub crawl?

Another question – is it fair that residents within the vicinity of the routes are inconvenienced for both days of a weekend, twice in a year?

Roads near me are clogged with cars twice a day 5 days a week. Who can I complain to it isn’t fair?

Feel free to accuse me of naivety but we have pollution, too many vehicles on the road, too many of the population being unhealthy and not exercising etc etc coupled with an attitude of ‘me me me’ but we can do something about this and effect change on so many levels.

Involve the local community by compulsorily requiring organisors of events that have over 1,000 entrants to apply for a licence for the event to take place, even if that means increasing entry price. A requirement is that the organisor arranges for demo bikes in adult and child sizes to be available with appropriately qualified instructors to make use of a designated safe area, perhaps in a park, introducing cycling to those who’ve never ridden or were just too nervous.

It’s giving people an opportunity to consider using a bike instead of a car/bus/train to get to work/shops with the added benefit of gaining fitness and health benefits, saving money, time and the planet.

These communities need to benefit from cyclists descending on their patch because being inconvenienced justifiably hacks people off. Local businesses can be supported by making entrants and their families aware of accommodation, restaurants, pubs, tea shops, leisure centres, kids’ activities etc.

Let’s see cyclists made welcome instead of criticism. The more people that are cycling the louder the collective voice leading to change in attitudes.

You want to increase the number of cyclists by putting additional charges and bureaucracy in place? I don’t think you’ve really thought this through.