• This topic has 23 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by iolo.
Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • Paying for a kitchen before actually seeing it?
  • el_boufador
    Full Member

    Hello,
    Kitchen renovation / payment potential issue I thought I would throw out there for you to advise / flame / abuse me about as you see fit 😉

    We’re renovating our kitchen and have been in conversations with a local firm about the design. Very happy with service,advice and prices so far – no problems there. Seem to be a reputable company from research we’ve done. It’ll have some bespoke parts (custom painted doors etc), not off the peg. Cost will be in the region of 10k for cabinets / appliances, with another 1500 quid or so to fit.

    Here’s the source of the problem:
    1) They want 25% deposit (of cost of kitchen = 2.5k) up front
    2) followed by the remaining 75% (7.5k) immediately BEFORE delivery
    3) payment for fitting upon successful completion post snagging work
    4) they don’t accept credit cards.

    I can just about stomach taking the risk with the 2.5k for the deposit, which I think is reasonable given it is bespoke and they may not be able to re sell it.

    However, I am not happy with stumping up 100% of the cost of the kitchen materials before I have got it into my house and checked it for contents & quality.
    As good as this company appear to be, there is always the outside chance that they go under, cock it up and order the wrong thing etc. If I have paid 100% materials then I have nothing to lever a resolution with.
    No credit card = no recourse with that route either.

    Am I being picky or not? (missus is keeping tight lipped but I can tell she thinks I am!)
    Has anyone had a similar situation – how much were you asked to pay up front before delivery?

    Think I will suggest that I could pay up to 50% immediately before delivery then remainder immediately after it is in my house and I have inspected.
    Does this seem fair?

    One final fly in the ointment – reviews of the firm online suggest they have been going since 1998, but date of incorporation via companies house is 2009. Should I be concerned (about a potential ltd co. phoenixer?). Could have been trading under a different arrangement (sole trader etc) before then I guess.

    Ta!

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Last time I did this it was 10% up front and the balance on delivery – i.e. in my house. Mind you – £11.5k…….

    iamsporticus
    Free Member

    walk

    do not give them the full balance until its done

    we had awful experience with reputable kitchen fitter ages ago
    if they have all the cash they stop giving a toss

    say you will pay them when the jobs done

    good luck

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    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Immagonna try that when I next buy a tv. The cost of the materials is the cost of materials. You have to pay up front. I don’t have any clients that don’t pay for their timber after it arrives (unless by prior agreement). I do however see some of your point. You could negotiate perhaps 90% with balance to be paid with fitting bill. Or once you’ve seen it’s all ok after a few days.

    el_boufador
    Full Member

    Thanks for responses,

    DD I think buying a telly is maybe a little different as you can walk out the shop with it or pay on credit card. But yes, I do see it from the other perspective (is it their risk or mine? that’s why I suggest 50% before).

    However if they need approaching 100 % before delivery what does that say about the financial state of the company? Do they not have some floating cash to bear some of the risk in these situations?

    Anybody used an escrow account (3rd party bank holds cash before both confirm they are happy) for this sort of thing?

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    Paying for the materials is slightly different from paying for the whole production process of the manufactured article.

    Offer to pay for materials, at the merchants not via the kitchen company. (How my very large driveway paving was bought). Labour, sand and cement etc. paid for on completion.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Escrow was going to be my suggestion, but I’ve no idea how it would work in this situation.

    I dunno…I can see why you’d be trepidatious about it (the tv comment was a joke really…just thinking of ordering something online for example). Can you get references to contact recent customers or is it a bit late in the deal to be asking those questions?

    ChubbyBlokeInLycra
    Free Member

    Tell them you don’t deal with the travelling community.
    If they don’t like that, tell them to behave like a proper business

    el_boufador
    Full Member

    Yeah I’ll be getting references. I really do believe they are genuine though.
    Main risks I want to cover is either them going under (lose deposit) or them ordering the wrong thing, or being not to spec in some other way (if I’ve paid 100% where is my lever for resolution?)

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Tell them you don’t deal with the travelling community.
    If they don’t like that, tell them to behave like a proper business

    😕

    I can’t see anything improper in what they’re asking. I do a lot of work for a couple of companies that supply timber flooring. Unless it’s for a trade customer eg. builder, designers, architects, none of their clients gets the timber on site unless they’ve already paid for it. They’re both “proper” businesses. (not saying I don’t understand the OP’s concerns to a certain extent.)

    ianfitz
    Free Member

    There’s no way I’d be paying for work in my house up front. As you say a deposit is fine but not payment in full. I have a good friend who makes bespoke kitchens (or anything else in wood) he bills once the work is done and the customer is happy. On bigger jobs he will ask for deposit within reason.

    It’s entirely different for materials being delivered to a site. There’s potential issues surround ownership and who is liable. But when you are talking about work carried out at a domestic address its obvious who is going to pay.

    wallop
    Full Member

    No credit cards is a bit odd.

    PePPeR
    Full Member

    I’d go with a compnay that took credit cards!

    Even if you only put a £100 on the card it covers you for so much more than if you didn’t!

    Does sound like the company is a small one with limited resources.

    martin_t
    Free Member

    The deposit sounds reasonable.

    Primarily, you need to be protected from the risk that the kitchen is not delivered or not correct when delivered. If it is not correct then this may not be apparent till after it is fitted. They need to protect themselves from you not paying.

    I suggest 25% deposit, 50% cash with receipt on delivery to site, 25% plus the installation cost on completion.

    If they don’t accept this or something similar, I would question the confidence thy have in their work.

    cranberry
    Free Member

    I am guessing that the no credit card situation is to stop you being able to claim back any money easily if things go wrong or because the CC company will take a certain percentage of the sum paid as a fee.

    oldboy
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t take the risk, having paid upfront for expensive goods where the company has gone under before delivery was made. Got my money back from the credit card company without any problems. I would find another firm who take card payment, even if it means paying a small surcharge.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Been there with b&q. Learned that lesson the hard way. In your shoes, I’d be walking away.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    I recently bought a new kitchen supply only from a local manufacturer.

    It was done on a 25% deposit, 75% before delivery basis. I was slightly concerned that there was no ‘overhang payment’ as I was fitting it myself but they have a showroom near me if I did need to talk to them. My experience was very good. There were a couple of issues with marks on doors and they replaced them without quibble.

    In the end, I thought “If you don;t trust them to deliver what you paid for enough to pay them for it before delivery then you shouldn’t be doing business with them at all”.

    [edit] Total price was just over £10k including appliances and worktop supplied by/through them.

    br
    Free Member

    In the end, I thought “If you don;t trust them to deliver what you paid for enough to pay them for it before delivery then you shouldn’t be doing business with them at all”.

    This.

    But tbh if you do want this kitchen from this supplier, talk to them and say why you are concerned; ie if the kitchen wasn’t supplied at all – you’d be £10k down.

    The credit card is due to cost, would be prepared to pay more to pay by CC – as that is what you’ll be doing at companies that accept CC’s.

    pymwymis
    Free Member

    This is becoming a game of spot the person who runs their own business. Those who do understand the requirement for payment ASAP, those who don’t appear to have issues with it.

    Chubbyblokeinlycra. WTF ?

    I run a kitchen fitting business. It’s a small business – most are, and so cash flow and resources are always a point of concern. If you use a small independent it is likely he will actually give a **** as one bad review can collapse his business.

    For the chap who had an issue with B&Q – I’m not surprised. The money you paid the for the fitting is 2x what the independent fitter who actually did the job got paid to do it. I’ve met some of those teams and they’re not exactly motivated to do a great job.

    I don’t manufacture the kitchens and so I buy them on behalf of the client.

    In doing this I take on the responsibility for payment to the manufacturer. I normally ask 20% deposit for labour and materials (a matter of a few £100’s) and stage payments thereafter. Final payment of labour etc only when the customer is happy.

    Once the order for units has been confirmed I ask for payment prior to delivery. Why should I take the risk on say £10k of your kitchen ?

    For what it’s worth, you could ask to pay the manufacturer direct (it won’t be your fitter in most cases) but most will be a bit reticent as they make a small margin on the units.

    I also take on the responsibility for making sure the delivery is made correctly and that anything which is damaged / missing is dealt with satisfactorily.

    Why is not taking credit cards such an issue ? How many tradesmen do ? Most people pay us by bank transfer.

    If you are worried ask for a formal receipt for any monies paid so you have some evidence of the transaction.

    The fact that the company only recently became Ltd shouldn’t be an issue unless you know they have previously filed for bankruptcy and reappeared. Most likely they went from a sole trader / partnership to a Ltd status for accounting / limiting risk reasons. They’ve probably grown which should be a comfort, few companies grow who are disreputable.

    Just my thoughts.

    easygirl
    Full Member

    I would pay the supplier directly, if the company make a small profit on the kitchen supply, that’s fine, I would expect that.
    Just pay the supplier by credit card, and pay the company the fitting costs and their profit on the kitchen at the end of the job, that way no-one loses, and I can’t se how the company will have any complaints , unless they are making thousands on the supply!

    iolo
    Free Member

    So the company have 100 percent of your money prior to starting?
    What if they don’t turn up for a bit as they’re busy elsewhere? What if they muck up the kitchen installtion? What if they go bust?
    Agree to stage payments once your happy or walk away.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    So the company have 100 percent of your money prior to starting?

    Errr, no, they have the cost of the physical kitchen units and hardware.

    Installation is paid for after completion to customers satisfaction.

    iolo
    Free Member

    Ok. I misread.
    my comment about going bust still stands.

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