Ive known drug users, including some addicts who are fantastic parents. Equally there are plenty of people who dont use drugs who should never be allowed near kids, never mind being parents.
I spose in the spirit of fairness I should also say ive known the odd drug user who were terrible parents too.
Yes, let them keep breeding, after all it is their human rights and that's all that matters.
My friend was a family case worker and believe me the babies that get adopted are the lucky ones. There are many more that aren't so lucky.
As for sfb's eugenics claims, as far as I can see it is not compulsory. It is an option.
Edit:
Equally there are plenty of people who dont use drugs who should never be allowed near kids, never mind being parents.
Sad but very, very true. Having children is not a right, it is a priviledge.
As for sfb's eugenics claims, as far as I can see it is not compulsory. It is an option.
which doesn't magically stop it being eugenics
Sad but very, very true. Having children is not a right, it is a privilege.
But can we take that privilege away from someone? We do take away bad peoples' liberty at times so that's OK but not other bad peoples' rights to have kids? Or are they not really bad just unfortunate? I suppose these days we can afford the luxury of human rights - just a shame it seems that who's rights should take precedence isn't so obvious.
which doesn't magically stop it being eugenics
Quick check with Wiki.
"Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of "improving human genetic qualities."
Not sure that offering junkies the choice to stop producing children that they either don't want or can't look after qualifies as eugenics.
No suprise on the American attitude of cure rather than prevention.
I listened to the interview on R4 this morning.
To say that it is eugenics is to say you misunderstand the meaning of the word.
I don't totally agree with Barbara wossname, but I see her point - it's not just a question of the rights of the mother, it's also a question of the what kind of life a junkies (effectively orphan) child is going to have.
rather than paying for drug addicts to be sterilized due to the fact that they can't look after kids could we add/replace it with people who shop at iceland due to the fact that feeding that frozen crap to your kids is probably far more damaging in the long term. We'll end up with a society who look up to kerry katona as a role model otherwise.
on a serious note, paying for sterilization seems just seems wrong, either be a proper nazi and enforce it or offer rehabilitation and support for the drug addict who may actually make them a decent parent in long term.
there are 6,801,702,680 humans alive, and the number keeps rising, how many more before we question the 'right' to reproduce?
While there will eventually have to be something done about rising population levels across the planet, whatever those measures are they should be applied equally to all, not just a chance to sterilize those who we deem as undesirable by the "civilized" standards of the day.
A Pandora's box opened...where will it end?
Swings and roundabouts aint it. I've known 100's of heroin and/or crack addicts have their children taken off them at birth but i've known a handful, and it is that, a handful make a change for the better. All this woman is doing is offering up a solution much the same as projects that offer substitute medication for addicts, be it Diamorphine (as they have in Scotland), Methadone, Subutex or Antibuse for alcohol users. Its just a different take on an age old problem.
Millions of children are born with a habit and they have to go through the same detox as adults but its easier in some ways with children as no one ever dies from a 'cluck'. The same unfortunately cannot be said for alcohol.
Also as a thought Alan Turing the fella who was instrumental in providing a formula for the concept of algorithm's was chemically castrated because he was gay and subsequently killed himself. The man was a genius and because of his sexual orientation lost his job etc etc.
I also heard the prog on radio 4, and she talked an awful lot of sense. They offer to reverse the op later on if the person wished to change their mind, but they have not had one take up the offer. On the face of it it is bordering on right wing eugenics, but when you heard this passionate & very caring person talk about the affects of drug addiction on unborn & totally unwanted babies, and how these children suffer terribly when born and have to be weaned off the drugs it was heartbreaking. and if all that didn't make you think again, they had done a study and 'costed' how much it took to look after one of these children from birth right through until he died of neglect at the age of 3 - $4m! I know we should not put a price on life, but c'mon someone has to say it!A very difficult subject, but one that needs to be discussed
No suprise on the American attitude of cure rather than prevention.
Its not an either/or debate. Drug addicts get significant help in the UK and there are countless bodies striving to reduce drug use and dependency. For some this will never be enough and a reversible method that restrict child birth for some would be appropriate.
You could pay them to be art -
http://www.santiago-sierra.com/200014_1024.php
Much more useful.
I see the other end of the issue - MrsSwadey is the one who has to get the court order to take the baby away...whatever you think, it's not as easy as it sounds, legally, ethically or personally.
I can't help thinking that either some people need to be encouraged/cajoled into not having more kids, or we need to make it more straight forward to remove the kids immediatly and give them to some decent loving families to adopt while they are still young enough not to be damaged.
Might also solve some of the problems for those losing out in the IVF lottery as well.
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