Parking fine - Fair or should I tell them to kindly F Off ?

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Parking fine - Fair or should I tell them to kindly F Off ?

48 posts & 32 voices | Started 7 months ago by FunkyDunc | Latest reply from coffeeking

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FunkyDunc - Member

I went out for a curry on Saturday night with some friends and drove us all there. Opposite the curry house there is a car park which has Tile Giant and Bath Store on it, with flats up above.

I parked up in their carp park at about 2 minutes to 8 in the evening, noticing another car had just pulled up as well in the space next but one to me.

We walked across the road to the curry house and went in. Imediatelly another customer came up to me and said, you better go and move your car as they are putting parking fines on all the cars. Went straight back out so literally 2 minutes later to find a fine on the windscreen.

A cleaner was locking up bathstore and said it was the guys I had seen, and they had just done the whole car park and driven off straight away (they had done his car too)

I moved the car to another parking area, and about 1hour later the 2 guys came back. They didnt like it when I had a go at them and said I could prove what time I arrived at the curry house, and showed them the picture I took on my camera showing me back at the car 5 mins later. They just drove off...

This is the notice on the sign of the building

Is it just tough look and I should pay, or should I complain? Afterall the guys saw me turn up and were getting out of their car as we got out of ours, they could have told us we couldnt park there.

I know it says 24hr inforced, but come on at 8pm on a Saturday night? I could argue that I am a customer of both shops as I have previously bought stuff from the tile shop, and got Bath Store to quote (they were expensive even in their sale!)

Posted 7 months ago #
captaincarbon - Member

Yep, tell them to do one. Not enforcable.

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

go in the shop and buy a single tile.

You're then a customer and allowed to park there at any time - it doesn't say you need to be in the shop whilst parked, does it?

I think this is a civil thing so just ignopring any letters is likely to work if you hold your nerve.

Posted 7 months ago #
The Southern Yeti - Member

I got a ticket in a private car park several months ago.

Have had about 7 letters, I'd guess, asking for money.

2nd from last said they were willing to settle at a discounted rate, despite all the others escalating in cost.

Last letter said the debt had been sold to another debt collection firm who were willing to settle at the original cost of the fine.

I'll probably ignore that one as well.

Posted 7 months ago #
allthepies - Member

Ignore it, do not enter into any correspondence whatsoever. They will send increasingly threatening letters, ignore those too.

Posted 7 months ago #
tony24 - Member

They will be private parking company so no goverment backing send a letter with your pictures and what they did maybe your receipt and they should take it no further. They are just hoping you pay it.

Posted 7 months ago #
MrCrushrider - Member

are you legally obliged to provide a correspondence (sp) address if they ask for it? i got a ticket in a friends apartment building car park (in his space) yesterday, and im appealing it - i emailed to appeal but they said they need a full postal address!

Posted 7 months ago #
The Southern Yeti - Member

MrCrush - all advice says no contact at all.

Posted 7 months ago #
geoffj - Member

1. Its a charge, not a fine
2.
Ignore it, do not enter into any correspondence whatsoever. They will send increasingly threatening letters, ignore those too.

This^^

Posted 7 months ago #
MrCrushrider - Member

shiz. oh well, i emailed them from a randomly named email address and didnt put my surname. i wont be responding to them again then! cheers SY

Posted 7 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

I just rang the payment number on the ticket (my number witheld)

They said they wont accept complaints over the phone. I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.

Ok might not make much difference but heck its all fun! They have no way of tracing me from that info. The ticket does have my car reg on it though, so I'm not sure if people can access your address details from that?

Posted 7 months ago #
downshep - Member

Bit naughty including the crimestoppers number and a natty blue and yellow border. Anyone would think they were trying to mislead the unwary.

That said, it is their property, provided for customer use and people chose to use it without paying for it. No wonder they get pee'd off.

Posted 7 months ago #
snakebite - Member

I got similar from some company a few months back, quick google on moneysupermarket, on here etc suggested ignore them. I did, had 3 letters increasing the 'fine' and nothing for ages.... they usually try to make letters and signs look all legal, crimestoppers for instance...LOL, Ignore them, shysters!

Posted 7 months ago #
2tyred - Member

Parking ticket from the council - legally, you have to pay (unless you're a foreign diplomat or something).

Parking ticket from anyone else - legally, you do not have to pay. They are entitled (legally) to the revenue lost by you parking there, ie the face value of the parking ticket you did not buy.

These private operators try and make their correspondence look as close to the official version (that you'd receive from the council/police if you got a ticket in a council run car park) but they have no legal authority whatsoever.

You'll receive an increasing number of threatening letters from the parking company, what looks like debt collectors and what looks like solicitors promising all sorts of retribution. None of it will happen - legally, all they could do is take you to a civil court where you'd be ordered to pay the damages (ie the cost of the ticket you didn't buy). Sending letters costs them virtually nothing, but taking you to a civil court would, so there's a snowball's chance in hell of them doing it.

The best thing to do is to bin all correspondence, don't bother getting into a dialogue. They can obtain your details from the DVLA for £10, assuming you're the registered keeper of the vehicle. Means nothing, the whole thing is a game of percentages - they're betting on a certain number of people being terrified by official-looking correspondence and paying up. Its an unsolicited invoice, nothing more.

This happened to Mrs Tyred a few years ago. She's somewhat more observant than I am of authority in general, so worried about it for ages. Several months later, she was still getting letters from 'solicitors' demanding payment for ludicrous amounts. She then got a jury duty letter (with the crown stamp on the envelope) and nearly had a heart attack!

Posted 7 months ago #
Cougar - Member

Parking ticket from the council - legally, you have to pay

... or private companies operating on behalf of the council.

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.

you need to get this guy involved, too;

http://apiln.blogspot.com/

Posted 7 months ago #
HoratioHufnagel - Member

The ticket does have my car reg on it though, so I'm not sure if people can access your address details from that?

Yes, they can, even with the vaguest of reasons DVLA will hand out details.

Posted 7 months ago #
MSP - Member

I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.

Just bloody ignore them!

Posted 7 months ago #
highclimber - Member

there is no contract. the sign doesn't say anything about you accpeting the conditions of parking there, it just says any car parking ILLEGALLY will get a charge (not a fine). How on gods earth do you park illegally on someone's land?

EDIT: don't correspond to them. just ignore

Posted 7 months ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

Ignore everything. Don't even THINK about entering into any sort of dialogue at all. Bin all letters. They'll give up after a while.

Posted 7 months ago #
grum - Member

Hang on, am I missing something? Much as I don't like paying parking charges, where on that sign does it say you can park there as long as it's 8pm on a saturday night?

Posted 7 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

I'm not contacting them again.

But, in theory I was parked on private land so I would have thought they can charge for parking on their land. If I dont pay an invoice from any other company they are entitled to take further action and give me a bad credit rating. So for all those above saying they cant inforce it, whats the difference between this and not paying any other invoice?

Posted 7 months ago #
Berm Bandit - Member

the principle is that you are entering into a contract to pay a fee for parking, which in this instance is £60. It is not, repeat not a fine or any form of penalty charge, what they put on your car was merely an invoice.

They are prohibited by their own association from "passing off" their invoices as penalties. From the picture above I would guess that they are already treading a very fine line with that.

The concept of the contract is only enforcable if they can prove that you were driving at the time, so the best advice is to totally ignore any communications and just get on with your life. They will threaten all sorts of dire consequences from time to time, but basically there is nothing they can do.

Check out British Parking Association and in particular this section of their code of practice:-

15 Misrepresentation of authority
15.1 You must not misrepresent to the public that the parking
control and enforcement work you are doing is carried
out under the statutory powers of the police or some
other public authority.
15.2 You must give clear information to the public about what
parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised.
However, you must not mislead the public into believing
that the rules you are enforcing are based upon the
powers of an agency regulated by Statute.
15.3 Operators who suggest to the public that they are
providing parking enforcement under statutory authority
will be acting in breach of the Code.
15.4 You must not use terms which imply that you are acting
under statutory authority; this will include terms such as
‘fine’, ‘penalty’ or ‘penalty charge notice’.

Posted 7 months ago #
The Southern Yeti - Member

You have to be given credit in order to get a bad credit rating as far as I'm aware.

Posted 7 months ago #
hora - Member

OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?

Posted 7 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

"OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?"

Because I have parked there many times during the day to visit the Post Office etc which is right next door. It is a commonly used parking area by all in the area, and you wouldnt think it was private land...

Hope this works.. the parking existed way before the building, rightly or wrongly it has been used as parking for years...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bd18&hl=en&ll=53.833321,-1.775665&spn=0.000013,0.006877&sll=47.368594,-3.735352&sspn=15.425119,28.168945&vpsrc=6&hnear=Shipley+BD18,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.83323,-1.77562&panoid=RR7olZilBW1VimyIcZAZwg&cbp=12,127.39,,0,10.67

In fact just checking the google image, the sign I took a picture of isnt even up, so it may well be a fairly recent thing..

Posted 7 months ago #
higgo - Member

The concept of the contract is only enforcable if they can prove that you were driving at the time

That's a strange interpretation of contract law. I always thought a contract had to have three elements: offer, consideration and acceptance. It is quite some stretch of logic to assume that because someone is driving they are also considering and accepting a contract proposal.

OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?
Why should he pay when there's convenient parking available that will not inconvenience anyone else?

Hang on, am I missing something? Much as I don't like paying parking charges, where on that sign does it say you can park there as long as it's 8pm on a saturday night?
You're the kind of person that pays these things. I wouldn't mind that so much - it's your money after all - but it keeps sharks like this in business.

But, in theory I was parked on private land so I would have thought they can charge for parking on their land. If I dont pay an invoice from any other company they are entitled to take further action and give me a bad credit rating. So for all those above saying they cant inforce it, whats the difference between this and not paying any other invoice?
The reason you pay your normal invoices is because you have contracted to receive the goods or the services you are being invoiced for (and you are a fine upstanding person). In this case you do not have to pay the invoice as you have never agreed to do so.

Posted 7 months ago #
Mark - Resident Grumpy

They have to prove you parked the car there - as has already been stated above. The burden of proof is theirs. You are under no obligation to answer their questions and so as long as you don't confirm in any correspondence who the driver was there is nothing they can do to legally enforce the contract that you did actually agree* to by parking there.

*'agree' in the legal sense that the signs were displayed prominently and at regular intervals in accordance with the clear regulations on these things.

Advice: Don't correspond with them at all.
If you can't resist then at least correspond in the third person so as not to inadvertently give away the fact you were the driver. eg.. 'I didn't see the signs when I parked there' and the like = admitting you were the driver.

Making no judgements on the moral rights or wrongs of parking there of course.

Posted 6 months ago #
BoardinBob - Member

That's a strange interpretation of contract law. I always thought a contract had to have three elements: offer, consideration and acceptance. It is quite some stretch of logic to assume that because someone is driving they are also considering and accepting a contract proposal.

They contact the registered keeper.

They don't know that the keeper was the driver.

Posted 6 months ago #
grum - Member

You're the kind of person that pays these things. I wouldn't mind that so much - it's your money after all - but it keeps sharks like this in business.

Nah I probably wouldn't pay, but then I probably wouldn't have parked their either. Nor would I be whinging as if it was some kind of outrage if I had and got a ticket.

Should property owners ever be able to stop people parking on their property if they don't want them to?

The reason you pay your normal invoices is because you have contracted to receive the goods or the services you are being invoiced for (and you are a fine upstanding person). In this case you do not have to pay the invoice as you have never agreed to do so.

So parking there when you've clearly seen the sign advising of the charges isn't agreeing to anything?

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

I can see why they've agreed to let clampers operate on their land. Even just one car left on those spots reduces their customers parking massively.

Anywaaaaay - don't communicate with them. Its their 'charge'. Not a fine.

Posted 6 months ago #
thomthumb - Member

as covered the charge assumes you have entered into a contract. which you have not.

Posted 6 months ago #
grum - Member

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

Notice though how the advice is about unfair tickets - I'm struggling to see what's unfair about this one.

Posted 6 months ago #
Mark - Resident Grumpy

s covered the charge assumes you have entered into a contract. which you have not.

If the signs are displayed correctly on the land then technically he has.

Avoiding paying is really quite simple - Ignore.
Should you choose to do so is a personal ethics issue.

Posted 6 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

Grum - I agree with you on this one apart from,

1. The fact that they had the opportunity to approach me and advise me of the charge for parking there (there representatives got out of the car at the same time as me)

2. I stayed less than 1 hour

3. I am a customer of Tile Giant

If they want to get pedantic I will too.

Posted 6 months ago #

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