A friend of mine has a 5 year old boy, rather stubborn and demanding in nature, his father is trying to instill a sense of right and wrong in him, but IMHO is swimming against the tide of a mother who has had a poor childhood* and seems to have little idea on how to raise a child.

So, child comes to my place, I have a marble track toy that he loves and I also have a couple of cats. The marble track toy is out of the way in my room because my cats have a habit of trying to eat the ball bearings.

So, I find the lad in my room playing with the marble track, with several balls on the floor and my cat looking on… I point out that the reason that he shouldn’t play with it is because my cat could eat a ball bearing and get very sick, then asked what I though was a very leading question:

“You know that she can get very sick by eating a ball bearing, do you really think that you playing with this is more important than making sure that she doesn’t get hurt ?”

I expected a “no” and got “yes, I WANT to play with this”

“Even if she might get hurt, or get really sick?”

“Yes”

* tries to continue playing with the marble track *

I don’t have kids and so have no real frame of reference for this, but I was shocked and not a little worried by his responses. Am I over thinking this or should it be something I chat to his ( already rather exasperated ) dad about ?

* her mum was sectioned after trying to drown her in a sink

He’s 5

My ‘god sister’ fed my hamster an elastic band on Christmas day, the local vet (farming area so more used to putting his arm up cows than dealing with hamsters) seemed amused despite being phoned on Christmas lunch.

To the best of my knowledge she’s turned out Ok.

+1 – he’s 5! Seems like an overly complex way of asking / telling a 5 year old not to do something to me…

You’re expecting quite a lot from a 5 year old to get empathy for a cat to overrule their fun with playing with a new toy. It’s hard enough getting a child that age to stop doing fun things that might hurt them let alone something else.

And get yourself a less stupid cat, eats marbles.

5 year old kids don’t really understand consequences.

My cat was at the vets having an op and we thought she wouldn’t be coming home, so we had to tell the kids. My 7 yr old lad was in floods of tears but my 5 yr old daughter, who sometimes randomly cries that she misses the cat when we are on holiday, just said “oh ok” and wondered off to play with something………

What ever you said, he heard: I have cool toys you can’t play with…..

Sounds like someone just had to be right in this stand off, not sure if it was the adult or the 5 year old..!

Another vote for the KISS* approach to five-year-old boys.

*Keep It Simple Stupid, before you phone social services. 🙂

Sounds like someone just had to be right in this stand off, not sure if it was the adult or the 5 year old..!

Well, when he doesn’t get his own way he does shout “you’re not the boss of me, you can’t tell me what to do!” to his dad.

If I’d have done that growing up I’d have ended up with a smacked arse and no pocket money until I was 20.

Parent of a 5 year old (actually just turned 6 yesterday) here:

I completely agree with the others, theoretical consequences can be hard for 5 year olds to grasp. Especially if they get in the way of something fun.

I wouldn’t be overly worried by that one incident.

Also, personally, I think trying to teach them about consequences is exactly the right thing to do, but you might just need to break it down a bit more into smaller steps (e.g. “Oooh come over here. Look at Mitsy. Do you see how interested she is in that ball? She wants to play with it doesn’t she? But do you know, last time she played with them she accidentally swallowed one and got very sick. I know, poor Mitsy. So do you think we should play with that in the other room?”)

My son is a model pupil and idiolises his teacher. At home he’s terrible. He’s just turned 6. When I suggested we speak to his teacher he was inconsolably upset and looked terrified.

We are at our wits end though. MrsH is on the edge of a breakdown at times!!

Well, when he doesn’t get his own way he does shout “you’re not the boss of me, you can’t tell me what to do!” to his dad.

<supernanny> Naughty step. 5 minutes. </supernanny>

There’s clearly more to this – the OP has obviously had concerns for the child’s emotional welfare for some time.

It’s a big ask for a five year old to understand that their desire to play with something is of less importance than an injured cat, it doesn’t mean that the child is going to turn out to be a psychopath.

However, next time the child comes over and asks to play with the marble toy, you could suggest that it’s put away for a reason and that if the child wishes to play with the toy, they need to take responsibility for ensuring that the marbles are kept in a little box and that the cat is kept out of the room?

have you considered telling your cat to not eat marbles?

You’re expecting quite a lot from a 5 year old to get empathy for a cat to overrule their fun with playing with a new toy. It’s hard enough getting a child that age to stop doing fun things that might hurt them let alone something else.

This.

You can’t leave a 4-5yo alone with a baby or a cat or themselves.

My 4yo was affronted yesterday that I wouldn’t let her poke the letter ‘I’ from her alphabet into my eye socket. Then 5 minutes later she was crying because she’d tried pushing it into her own eye socket to see what it was like.

A visit from the Supernanny would be a very good thing.

He is a smart lad, but the moodiness and aggression of his mother is all too obvious when he doesn’t get what he wants when he wants it.

His parents are living together, but their relationship is bad, the kid sees this and instinctively plays one off against another – when the dad tries to give any sort of discipline then he goes to his mother, who’ll more often than not say “ignore your dad, he’s just in a bad mood”.

As a baby his mum thought it funny when he would spit food out, and therefore encouraged it – he still can’t eat properly – which stresses his dad out when he’s out with him.

His dad doesn’t follow through with punishments, which doesn’t help. When the lad is acting up his dad will tell him if he doesn’t stop then X will happen, but then often goes back on what he’s said, so the kid is doesn’t really understand when he is punished for doing something that he’s been told not to do.

I don’t have kids and so have no real frame of reference for this, but I was shocked

That’s kids for you. What you’ve described seems on the mild side of normal to me.
I have 3 and they shock the hell out of me most of the time.
The littlest panthercub is 7 and has been blessed with a dangerous combination of personality traits including complete contempt for rules and authority figures and a blatant disregard for his own personal safety.

He will probably spend the majority of his adult life in a prison infirmary.

Cranberry, bear in mind it’s really easy to be a parent for a couple of hours when you don’t have to deal with the consequences.

(e.g. “Oooh come over here. Look at Mitsy. Do you see how interested she is in that ball? She wants to play with it doesn’t she? But do you know, last time she played with them she accidentally swallowed one and got very sick. I know, poor Mitsy. So do you think we should play with that in the other room?”)

Ooh, you’re gooood (and actually make me nervous, I’ll never be able to do that stuff).

make me nervous, I’ll never be able to do that stuff

Don’t worry – it comes!

our 5 yo often teases the cat, then when the cat inevitably scratches him he chases it round trying to smack it for being a naughty cat.

Pretty sure he’s not a socio-path just a fairly typical 5yo

Fingers crossed.

Naughty step. 5 minutes.

black mark for negativity jim, it’s 5mins time out

+1 on the he’s 5 and it was a bit too much info in one go.

I have a daughter so can’t really speak for raising boys, although apparently there is a difference in how you should give instructions. I have many friends who do have boys and this very thing came up the other day (too much info in one hit). I was told that their boy needs to have one at a time instructions or he just hears the last thing said to him and answers based on that.

As for the this lad’s reply, it does sound like there is a lack of empathy but again, this is probably more down to the complete selfishness of many 5 year olds!

I don’t know how often you get to see this lad but kids are smart enough to recognise there are different rules for different places (as poor old Hora is finding out) so it is worth bearing with any rules you want to make. GrahamS summed it up nicely, especially the bit where the lad got to play with the toy, but in a safe environment away from the cats.

Please remember that as you don’t have kids you probably don’t have kid’s toys knocking about, and that is really boring for 5 year olds when they come to visit. Stopping them from playing with the one thing they really like, that keeps them amused, is quite hard for them to understand and possibly slightly unfair.

Sounds well within normal range to me. In that situation I think I’d show the kid how he can play with the toy. i.e. As long as the door’s shut and the cat’s out of the room, or more likely play with him so that you can keep an eye on the situation too.

To some extent, your house your rules (not always easy depending on the parents). Generally I think it’s good to keep repeating things like you have even if they don’t seem to be getting it yet. When they are old enough to understand a grasp empathy they won’t have forgotten the consistent message and it therefore normalises a good behaviour pattern.

Perhaps chat to the dad in more general terms and see if you can be of any help.

the kid sees this and instinctively plays one off against another – when the dad tries to give any sort of discipline then he goes to his mother, who’ll more often than not say “ignore your dad, he’s just in a bad mood”.

Completely normal kid behaviour. Kids do this to parents, no matter how wonderful or awful those parents are. This is what kids do in search of the answer they want to get.

Yeah the tricky part is trying to maintain a united front against kids doing this, even when you don’t actually agree with what the other parent has said!

There is a lack of empathy there, and to be fair to the lad, I’m 43 and I lack empathy for a cat that’s daft enough to eat marbles.

Cats have nine lives, just make sure there’s only 8 marbles and let the lad play 🙂

I like kids but….. I couldn’t eat a whole one.

It has nothing to do with HIS attitude, more yours …. are you sure you didn’t construct this little scenario… Easy to put upon the poor kid whose mother you don’t like.

Empathy happens in the last part of the brain to grow…. brilliantly illustrated by the boy, you and me 😀

Either put the cats out next time or don’t let him round … But definitely don’t concern yourself with other peoples kids … really you’ll not be able to change situation as much as you think it’s wrong…. (that’s said not to have a pop… you care about the dad, the best you can do is be there for him… good luck)

Pretty much what they said ^. You can’t apply adult logic to a five-year-old.

We used to have three chickens. My son (aged four) picked the white one to be ‘his’ chicken. Fed it, petted it, had paddies when we wouldn’t let him sleep in the coop with them at night… His chicken then died (prolapsed oviduct, don’t google it) and we broke the news to him gently. Without missing a beat he said “That’s ok, we can just get a new one.” Heartless git!

Slightly more on-topic, he swallowed a marble when he was two. We told him the story of having to go through his nappies to check to see if/when it had come out. Unfortunately he now thinks that swallowing random stuff is risk-free, as “we can just look at my poos until we find it.”

At that age their notion of consequences, or cause and effect, will be vastly different to yours.

Your not the boss! My lad says you are my servant as you cook for me.

Is it wrong to have just put the cat out?

Don’t worry – it comes!

I dunno, I just don’t think like that.

Is it wrong to have just put the cat out?

It was probably wrong to set it on fire in the first place.

I wouldn’t let her poke the letter ‘I’ from her alphabet into my eye socket.

You’ve got a smart cookie there I reckon. Can’t argue with the logic of putting it into an “I” socket.

OP, as already said

You’re expecting quite a lot from a 5 year old

So, nice as it was for you to let him have an opinion on the matter, you should just have removed him and the cat from the area while explaining why he couldn’t play with the toy at that time.
You then supply an alternative toy or activity. No need for a chat with Dad. You have house rules, the child has to learn this ,if he is going to be a regular visitor.

As with others, pretty sure I’d get the same response to similar questions from my 4 year old.

Typical conversation re. things not to do goes:

PJ “Don’t do that, you might get hurt”
PJJ “No I won’t, I’ll be careful”
PJ “If X happens, then Y (generally severe pain) will result”
PJJ “No it won’t, I’ll be cafeful daddy”
5 mins later…
PJJ “Waaaah, I hurt myself doing the thing you told me not to do!”

(Obviously force is used to avoid particularly dangerous activities)

Can’t argue with the logic of putting it into an “I” socket.

+1 for this. You absolutely don’t want to put it in the “A” socket.

Slightly more on-topic, he swallowed a marble when he was two. We told him the story of having to go through his nappies to check to see if/when it had come out. Unfortunately he now thinks that swallowing random stuff is risk-free, as “we can just look at my poos until we find it.”

On the contrary, now I remember it, PJJ has only put things up her nose once (that we know of), after getting something stuck, crying, us thinking we were in for a trip to A&E, and then her managing to blow hard enough to get it out.

You absolutely don’t want to put it in the “A” socket.

Or the “P” socket!! 😯

Thanks for the replies – I am well aware that there’s a whole load of child-rearing experience that I don’t have, the consensus that it is normal and to perhaps break things down in to smaller bites of info ( I thought I’d done that ) are useful, as is a reminder to remove temptation.

As for the house not being full of toys – sooo wrong, between shiny things for me, and all the stuff that the cats have – it is packed to the rafters. Perhaps, whilst the lad is still not too tall, I can put him on the cat’s exercise wheel and wear him out a bit. 🙂

I do remain concerned for the lad, despite my friend’s best efforts and possibly because of the way I was raised – we were raised with love and, in retrospect, fair discipline, taught to do what we were told to do by adults, until we were adult enough to start making those descisions for ourselves. In his case there is some love ( but his mum has threatened to walk away from her partner and son several times ) and little constructive and effective discipline.

His parents are living together, but their relationship is bad, the kid sees this and instinctively plays one off against another

Which probably explains where he got “you’re not the boss of me, you can’t tell me what to do!”