Parmo - whats not to love ..mmmmmmm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2009/oct/09/parmo-regional-snack-foods
Bike Forum
Paramo - why the love?
-
Posted 4 months ago #
-
I used to love Buffalo gear, simple, just works really well in the shittiest conditions.
Paramo seems to inspire a similar level of devotion, at a significantly higher price.Layers/membranes work ok, but it's all a bit of a faff really.
Posted 4 months ago # -
None of this stripping off to add another base layer nonsense
You mean using a 'belay' jacket - I was surprised when I saw Paramo's Torres touted as a 'new concept', as mountaineers have been throwing oversized synthetic insulation over the top of everything else for a fair while now! It's hardly an innovative concept unique to Paramo.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I got given a waterproof jacket and over trousers last year as I did a few months as a Ranger over winter.
Lovely bits of kit but I'm happy that I didn't have to foot the bill.
Lots of zips to let the heat out as well.
TimPosted 4 months ago # -
Its too bloody warm for my tastes and I am damned if I am taking my vest off to wear it. That would expose me to the horrid lining. Its like velour, catches on rough skin etc and is all synthetic feeling. Uggg.
I refuse to believe that in this day and age we have to keep repoofing our kit. Might as well wear my waxed cotton. i have a hooded windproof shell of their's but to be honest its no better than the cheapy pertex thing I got in TKmaxx. Keeps plenty of wind off and some rain as does the other. 1 was 5 times the price of the other .Now Buffalo, that different but still too pricey when you can get the same effect with my cheap windproof and a genuine Helly Hansen pile jacket which is far nicer than the cheapy Buffalo stuff.
I disagree with the idea of slinging a insulated layer on top when you stop. If its wet you then get that wet which is heavier and needs keeping seperate when you sling it back in the sack when you start to move.Maybe greatin dry conditions but in the uk most of the time. Nope. Any insulation looses effect if it gets sodden so why not quickly ditch the waterproof, sling on a layer and then re don the waterproof? Takes a few seconds.
I would love to like Paramo but it has too much against it for me.Posted 4 months ago # -
Paramo: cut poorly, but about the only thing that actually stays waterproof (with treatment) and keeps you dry up here (Highlands, bunch of outdoor instructors).
Those sallopettes are the shizzle on a cold, wet, snow day or paddling in a canoe, or gorgewalking etc. But waaaay to warm most of the time.
If I lived somewhere less challenging in the cold n wet department, I would probably buy cheapest jacket from a good brand (like my Montane Meteor DT jacket).Posted 4 months ago # -
Dunno if it's changed much since the late nineties but my paramo waterproof trousers were getting on for the worst £100 I've spent on outdoor gear. As mentioned earlier, too hot unless it's properly Baltic, the sales pitch that it's more easily repaired than goretex is handy because just about anything could damage it. Kneeling or sitting lets the water through and the drawstring waist required constant hitching to stay up. I went on to buy some Goretex Sprayway mountaineering salopettes (1998) and they are still going strong.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It's used by some MR teams that I know for a reason. And it's not to do with it's performance. When I said to my mate you luck sod its free he replied "No we have to go and collect it".
Posted 4 months ago # -
I was curious about Paramo for many years. I eventually bought a Velez Adventure Light smock in September.
I've since worn it in various inclement weather (snow, sleet, hail, rain, wind) on foot and on a bike and it has kept me comfortable (far, far more-so than my shell jackets) and dry. With just a base layer underneath it works over a wide range of temperatures -opening the zips allows the jacket to work well in warmer conditions.
I really like mine, but each to their own.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Far far far superior to any breathable membrane jacket. I got sick of using goretex that simply couldn't deal with perspiration, leaving me soaking wet inside and eventually wetting out on the outside.
Did 3 hours in that fine rain that wets you through yesterday, and stayed completely dry. It just works.Posted 4 months ago # -
I've just been having an interesting e-mail exchange with Paramo which went a bit like this:
Me: It's not waterproof. When I lean against something water comes through even though I reproof it regularly.
Paramo: Have you tried reproofing it?
Me: See my original mail. I reproof it at the start of each winter and it makes no difference.
Paramo: Have you tried reproofing it? Due to the nature of the fabric if you put pressure on it it will force water through.
Me: So its not waterproof then?
Paramo: It is waterproof we tested it at Leeds university. Once the pressure comes off it will start moving the water back out again.
Me: Thats not great if my longjohns are now wet and chilly.
Paramo: If you want to send it back to us you can.
Paramo are in denial about it's waterproofness.
That said I find it awesome for Scottish winter climbing and ski touring provided it doesn't rain too much and you don't sweat too much or are able to leave the vents open on the walk in.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Stop leaning against things
Happy to help
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, it doesn't have a membrane like a gore tex, so yes, lean against something hard and water will eventually come through. I'm amazed that ever happens to you in real life though.
In two or three years of real use, nothing for me has ever come close in terms of keeping me dry and comfortable, even in some truly disgusting situations.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Stop leaning against things
I have an inherited condition which means I frequently need to stop and lean against something.
But you didn't consider that before posting your hurtful comments did you?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, it doesn't have a membrane like a gore tex,
I know but it's marketed as waterproof.
I'm amazed that ever happens to you in real life though.
Winter climbing it happens all the time. It doesn't even need to be hard, high steps where your knees are pressed against the fabric are enough.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It is waterproof, we end up proofing about every 6 weeks or so at work to keep it so. Good clean with soapflakes, then really good rinse, then proof works well.
As I said before - poor cut and design, but the only thing to keep you dry and warm IMO up here long term. Stuff starts well, and a few weeks/months in stops working. I guess for Joe average, our three months work is a a years use.Posted 4 months ago # -
I'd love to give it a go, but it would be an expensive "trial" and as someone who runs hot anyway, I'm unwilling to take the chance.
I've used a Buffalo jacket in the past and there's definitely something incongruous about walking at 4,000 ft, in a raging blizzard, with bare flesh exposed through the side zips - but it does the job.
Meanwhile, I've a new eVent jacket for hillwalking which has, so far, proved to be both waterproof and breathable and a GoreTex ActiveShell jacket for cycling which is also working out really well.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, it really does sound like yours needs reproofing. You need to wash it with techwash or soap flakes before you proof it, use the measured amount. If water starts to come through you need to repeat, the hydrophobic coating is a major component that keeps the water out. Once a season clearly isn't enough for you.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, it really does sound like yours needs reproofing
Do you work for Paramo?
I reproof them at the start of each season as per instructions and it makes no difference to the pressure issue it still occurs on the first outings after reproofing.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, I have no connection with the outdoors industry, Paramo or anyone associated.
I just don't know anyone who uses Paramo (there's probably about ten of us in my group of friends) who has ever experienced the problem of water coming through if they hadn't needed to reproof.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I just don't know anyone who uses Paramo who has ever experienced the problem of water coming through if they hadn't needed to reproof
There have been quite a few threads about this over on UKC and several folk above saying the same as me. I am not alone. I expect it's not a problem walkers would notice but climbers definately do.
Don't get me wrong, I love it for Scottish winter climbing but I think it's being a bit economical with the truth to claim it's waterproof. Highly water resistant might be a better claim but that wont sell jackets.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ive been using it for well over a decade, and they always said that water can be forced through under pressure. That's why the saloppettes have foam in the seat and knees.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Spin, I can sort of see where you're coming from, but for a day in the driving rain in the hills it keeps me drier than any gore tex ever has. For me the garment deserves the waterproof moniker more than gore tex, even if the fabric doesn't.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I though it was acknowledged and stated by Paramo that water comes through if you lean on stuff - it's certainly very well known - but in fairness to spin, I can't find anything on their website that says that. Perhaps they used to but don't anymore?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Druidh. I have a Large Velez Adventure Light in the shop for demo purposes if you want to give it a try. Email in profile.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Druidh, it really is as good as it sounds.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I was curious/sceptical until I got mine. It was an expensive gamble, but it has paid off so far.
I too 'run warm' (on the mtb I generally wear just a base layer and add a waterproof when colder -when many other riders are wearing multiple base and mid layers), but I've found that the Velez Adventure Light has been great. I'm not sure how it will be in hot weather, but my other jackets aren't too great in hot weather either.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I got sick of using goretex that simply couldn't deal with perspiration, leaving me soaking wet inside
That's why I have an eVent jacket. Fundamentally different to Goretex etc because the membrane has loads of tiny holes. It's WAY more breathable than Goretex in UK conditions - its breathability is unaffected by temperature and humidity.
Posted 4 months ago # -
notlocal, I'll borrow it, druidh is tiny
THing is I run hot too, and tend to not hang about on rides...therefore if I have a waterproof on all I need underneath is one base layer.
I also equate weight with sweatiness.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I wouldn't wear it for riding; but then I don't bother with goretex or anything else like that while on the bike. For walking, hiking etc, it's great, but would need proper minus temps to use on a bike.
Posted 4 months ago # -
but you're a frikkin animal
Posted 4 months ago # -
No, a sweaty little fella!
Posted 4 months ago # -
its breathability is unaffected by temperature and humidity.
As it's a membrane I suspect it is affected by temperature and humidity. To cross the membrane the humidity outside would need to be lower than that inside. Unless osmosis has changed since I last did any science
Posted 4 months ago # -
Must admit I've also never really 'got' Paramo gear - I can't get past seeing a mate with soaking legs and torso after a particularly soggy scramble up a hillside - his knees were presumably stretching the fabric as he took big steps up/knelt down and his (admittedly really heavy) pack did a nice job of forcing water through the top. Lots of people do love it however.
Edit - thread made me google it as I also recall it was a pain that needed reproofing all the time, some people actually recommend proofing it before every decent walk, the fox forks of outdoor jackets?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm a big Paramo fan, but only over the winter months as I to find it touch warm in the summer. I think what folk are forgetting, is that the main consideration about any clothing system is not ultimately whether it's "waterproof", but does it maintain an acceptable body temperature. Paramo and Buffalo are not waterproof in the conventional sense as you cannot test there hydrostatic heads (column of water on the fabric) but both work to maintain core temperature. As for re-proofing, Gore/eVent also needs to be cleaned and reproofed from time to time as if the outer "wets out" then it will no longer "breathe". Also eVent and Gore both use PTFE membranes, it's the treatment of the inner side of the fabric that differs, basically making eVent more breathable when new, but more prone to degradation in performance due to dirt and grime.
Posted 4 months ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
