Hi, looking at the effective top tube length for a 17" P7 (580mm) against a 16" 456 (584mm) makes them look about the same, but on the websites the diagrams show that Orange measures from the head tube to the seat tube, whilst On-One measure form the head tube to above the seat collar (!). Is this right? Could anyone who has ridden both confirm the On-One is considerably more stretched out?

I actually have a 2007 P7, which has slacker angles than the current (68 head, 73 seat). Its listed as having a whooping 610mm effective top tube length (3cm more than current models), but I guess this is entirely due to the slacker seat angle (73 vs 70). I'd like a frame with less effective top tube length, but I also like the position of my seat with the 73 degree angle! Does this mean I'd be looking at a 14" 456s? I'm interested in the 456 purely as an extended demo for a future 456Ti purchase, so I am not looking at the Summer Season even though it seems to be more like my 2007 P7.

Cheers,
Andy