Free Yorkshire has plenty of oil, we’ll not be sharing as it’s needed for cooking chips.

it’s a funny green that wants to increase the power of oil and gas companies by radically downscaling the size and ability of the state that needs to supervise them. iScotland will be outclassed, outresourced and outnegotiated by any one of the major energy companies.

iScotland will be outclassed, outresourced and outnegotiated by any one of the major energy companies.

Norway seems to have managed okay.

But then none of the finances work. People in Scotland would be significantly worse off after Independence.

Not true. Oil is a very nice bonus to have, but even without oil the GDP per head is similar north and south of the border.

I see commercial ship building has just gone.

Norway seems to have managed okay.

Statoil seems to help that situation somewhat.

Oil is a very nice bonus to have, but even without oil the GDP per head is similar north and south of the border.

Those are the figures for Scotland as part of the UK – what about for an independent Scotland?

Not true. Oil is a very nice bonus to have, but even without oil the GDP per head is similar north and south of the border.

That ignores the multiplier effect that Oil revenues give.

I see commercial ship building has just gone.

It can’t have done, we’re Better Together, remember?

Oh wait, the GMB are blaming Salmond for it 🙄

It can’t have done, we’re Better Together, remember?

As part of the UK, we have the broad shoulders to order ferries from elsewhere.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/survey-majority-of-voters-dont-think-theyre-being-told-the-whole-truth-by-e.1408104577

The headline seems about right to me.

Yes, sounds about right to me too.

Though it’s complicated by the fact that often there’s no such thing as “the truth”. Will there be a currency union? Will Scotland be in the EU? No-one can say for certain, as these things will be negotiated after the referendum, all either side can do is give reasons why they think the negotiations will go their way.

Agree with that too, plus I think too much has been made of the personalities of AS and AD, as if it is an election. What happens after the referendum, which parties choose to seek election and on exactly what policies is another debate. There is even a strong chance the Conservatives could make a resurgence in Scotland, it it were to become independent (well, it would be hard to become less popular).

The question here is ‘Do you think Scotland should be an independent country?’, not ‘Do you think Alex Salmond, or whoever should be First Minister’, or even ‘Do you think Scotland would be slightly worse off/slightly better off/the same if it were to become independent?’

Norway seems to have managed okay.

d’oh! Statoil is a state-owned company that spent millions of dollars bribing Iranian Islamist fascists. I’m not sure that it’s much of a model for a social democratic iScotland in which transnational corporations produce the oil and gas.

far out, this statehood business is more tricky than it looks…

Linky please KB

Genuine interest.

This’ll save KB the trouble

d’oh! Statoil is a state-owned company that spent millions of dollars bribing Iranian Islamist fascists.

Which leads us nicely on to major Better Together donor Ian Taylor of Vitol, involved in shady goings-on in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Serbia. He gave a million dollars to a Serbian warlord, gave kickbacks to Saddam Hussein, and gave half a million pounds to Better Together.

I wonder why?

The whole queen thing is interesting and they another example of the fact that even the DO doesn’t actually want independence.

Keep the queen – tick
Keep open boundaries – tick
Keep the £ – tick
Keep Westminster in charge if monetary and fiscal policy – tick
Keep the BOE as lender of last resort – tick
Have even great tax powers – tick

All delivered with a NO. So WTF is this all about? Even the DO wants essentially the status quo, except for a bigger throne and mirror.

Loads of independent countries have the queen as titular head of state – we had a wee event for them in Glasgow recently, you might have seen it.

Equally, lots of countries in Europe have open boundaries.

So are you saying no European or Commonwealth country is independent?

We’re back to your interesting understanding of independence again, which only really North Korea complies with.

Which leads us nicely on to major Better Together donor Ian Taylor of Vitol, involved in shady goings-on in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Serbia. He gave a million dollars to a Serbian warlord, gave kickbacks to Saddam Hussein, and gave half a million pounds to Better Together.

Who is proposing that iScotland should emulate Vitol or Ian Taylor? No-one. You were suggesting that iScotland could emulate Norway and Statoil.

Your response is pure flannel and whataboutery. It’s a strange type of Green that wants to emulate an oil state as a model of sustainable social democracy.

Not sure if that was a question for me Ben, but if so, the odd thing is that throughout, the case is actually being made for the status quo with a little bit but not too much autonomy and the support of a wider union.

There is only one box that delivers that and is has the word NO on it. Essentially both sides want largely the same result. Hence this is largely a waste of time and money (albeit a fun thread).

You were suggesting that iScotland could emulate Norway and Statoil.

No I wasn’t. I was using Norway as an example to point out that small countries don’t necessarily get bullied by oil companies. I wasn’t suggesting that Scotland should emulate Norway in every way.

I want the oil to stay where it is. However, realistically, I know that’s not going to happen. So, if it is going to be extracted, I want it to do the greatest good, not be squandered.

There is only one box that delivers that and is has the word NO on it.

What the No box delivers is a cut in funding for Scotland, and no further democracy for anyone. Oh, and we still get to spend colossal sums on nuclear weapons.

It’s not just that Better Together lie, it’s that they’re so hysterically bad at it…

Polling card through this morning, shit just got real! 😆

Not got ours yet. ITS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU!!,!!

Same here! Maybe the postie is working for BT and hiding them?

Yup,mine too!

None here.

I blame MI6.

Would be amusing is you “cyber nats” got no votes 😛

Mine is here.

I got mine this morning. Wonder if THM, FNF and EL got theirs yet? Oh wait no they can’t vote 😆

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ZMwp1elXw#t=545[/video]

I’m just going to leave this here. Have a watch of it and tell me that we’re better together.

I got mine this morning. Wonder if THM, FNF and EL got theirs yet? Oh wait no they can’t vote

It’s probably just a coincidence they’ve been quiet today and polling cards are missing….

Oh look what a surprise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23681061

Just noticed the date on this. I thought it was a secret.

That Denis Curran chap was very good, that was a great contribution he made. It’s people like him who should be persuaded to stand for election, put some balance back into the system.

Clair field isn’t the alleged new sekrit field off shetland, but it’s a good indicator of why oil reserves figures aren’t as simple as people think- the reserve figures aren’t a maximum, or even an average, they’re a realistic base level of what companies expect to extract. So they’re consistently raised, very rarely reduced.

Unless you’re the UK government of course, when your OBR releases reserve figures that are mysteriously 2/5ths the size of everyone else’s, shortly before a referendum.

Steady now it has been proved time and time again that AS is the only politician who lies and misleads with figures

Pfft you cyber nats

I can’t think of any other country in the world where having oil reserves is a bad thing, so why is it being drummed into Scotland that we cannot succeed as an independent country despite having vast oil reserves?

Is it because if we get independence we’ll find out just how much Westminster has shafted us and we’d be tempted to use the nukes in the Clyde to bomb Westminster to smithereens?

My astute people skill senses are picking up some mistrust of Westminster statistics.

Bloody outrageous, politicians would never deceive those they serve.

The electorate however…..

Out of curiosity, did anything else materialise on the alleged new field.

rene59 – Member

I got mine this morning. Wonder if THM, FNF and EL got theirs yet? Oh wait no they can’t vote 😆

I assume the hilarity which you appear attach to that comment is based on “irony”.

Of course what would be far more ironic would be if the people of Scotland were to reject the nats and vote to remain in a union with England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

Something which remains a distinct possibility :

Scottish independence: Poll shows ‘No’ campaign heading for landslide with 22% lead

How utterly hilarious would that be ? 😆

And what is even more side-splittingly hilarious, in the irony stakes, is the fact that approx 25% of people in England and Wales want Scotland to be independent, which means that there are far far more supporters of Scottish independence living in England and Wales than there are in Scotland.

Is there even a emoticon which can do justice to level of hilarity ?

Yes is definitely winning on the car sticker polling

Although some one seems to have fairly forcibly removed one of the wooden yes cutout signs on the way home from work.

It is a significant improvement since the last Survation poll on August 3rd which put support for independence at 40%, with 46% against and 14% of voters undecided.

Hmmm – me thinks that an article which uses the word “improvement” in it with respect to change in polls is not completely unbiased…