Wow, so the DO really is pushing the panama option this afternoon. That really is desperate and silly. Just go back and read what Stiglitz and Mirlees said. It really is very simple.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/07/scotland-pound-independence-alex-salmond

Of all the choices available, he now ends up with the worst of all!

@tmh how I laughed, I only read a news piece but I’d love to hear him actually say it. It’s Scotlands pound, just fantastic.

His “if we can’t have the pound we’ll not take any debt” line will end very badly if he pursues it, an onward spiral of retaliation over what assets do or do not belong to Scotland. If we, in the UK, had to take the extra debt we could. I very much doubt an independent Scotland could proposer with the consequences of not doing so. BTW a Scotland with no debt would certainly qualify for the euro but a country which had effectively reneged on its share of a national debt isn’t going to be a very attractive candidate for membership, but perhaps I forget Scotland is already a member.

So the AS fantasy is complete

Scotland is independent but uses the British pound, does so without a central bank or any of that troublesome and expensive treasury infrastruture. Its automatically a member of the EU with all the opt outs that the UK has and its totally debt free. Nirvana.

Meanwhile back in the real world the No campaign trails 45 to 55.

It’s breathtaking incompetence – as some of the comments in the FT and elsewhere say, WTF are his advisors doing? It’s truly embarrassing to have a first minister talking such gibberish.

BTW a Scotland with no debt would certainly qualify for the euro but a country which had effectively reneged on its share of a national debt isn’t going to be a very attractive candidate for membership, but perhaps I forget Scotland is already a member.

No debt means less assets. iScotland wants to join the EU??? Well they better play ball with the rUK as we have a veto. Have I not mentioned that little boys can’t bully big boys!

Have I not mentioned that little boys can’t bully big boys!

Have I not mentioned that bullying is what nasty children do?

I think the DO has been in regression therapy. He’s going back to arguments discredited long ago. So much for going out with a bang. More like a whimper and resignation.

Tell that to AS. He is trying to bully the rUK into propping up an independent country. The UK doesn’t have a currency union with any other country it trades with so there is no need to have one with iScotland.

No debt means less assets.

Bearing in mind I’m not an economist, can you explain this please?

Scotland doesn’t take any debt it gets less assets. Try being an independent country with no embassies etc.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28691840

It’s 3:01 jamba’s and he says it without a wink. It’s amazing

A least Sillars at the start of the clip is a little more honest and make as stab at explains a fixed peg. Poor man gets a but lost when he claims that you can have a pegged currency with very differnt BoP situations but we will let him off that. He can get a C+ effort with a C- for content.

Poor old Sillars watching the DO make a horlicks of all this. Must make him v sad.

He is trying to bully the rUK into propping up an independent country.

Is he – can you expand on that?

Try being an independent country with no embassies etc.

Big deal – embassies – wow that’s a real deal breaker.

BTW a Scotland with no debt would certainly qualify for the euro

Not without a central bank running as part of ERMII for two years it wouldn’t…

Big deal – embassies – wow that’s a real deal breaker.

No functioning benefits, passport system, DVLA or tax collection facilities is a bit more of an issue… you may remember that part of the planned ‘we can set up a new country for three groats and a half packet of penny chews’ relied on years of continued access to rUK’s administration agencies… Scotland is in no position to play hardball!

How much does the £1bn Trident maintenance bill we’d save get us?

How much does the £1bn Trident maintenance bill we’d save get us?

I don’t know, go get your own currency, work out the exchange rate and get back to me.

continued access to rUK’s administration agencies…

My tax office is in East Kilbride. There is also a tax office at Haymarket in Edinburgh. There are DVLA offices all over Scotland. I do believe that there is a passport office in Glasgow. They’d be scottish assets and easily converted to deal with scottish issues.

I don’t know, go get your own currency, work out the exchange rate and get back to me.

We have our own currency – it’s called the pound and the exchange rate is one to one.

Fasternotfatter – He might also want to work out how a total annual running cost of about £2.3 billion. (approx 5% of total UK defence budget) gives Scotland a £1bn Trident maintenance bill?

My tax office is in East Kilbride. There is also a tax office at Haymarket in Edinburgh. There are DVLA offices all over Scotland. I do believe that there is a passport office in Glasgow. They’d be scottish assets and easily converted to deal with scottish issues.

But the taxypayer database, software licences and computer systems are all rUK assets… oops 😳

But the taxypayer database, software licences and computer systems are all rUK assets… oops

Eh naw – how can they possibly be rUK assets when there is as yet no rUK? Your argument is bobbins.

It’s very like a “it’s ma baw, an i’m takin it hame” response.

Has any body had a laugh at this yet. It’s our poond!

Salmond is becoming a bigger joke by the day. The SNP have no answer for a plan b but keep rattling on about a currency union that is never going to happen.

Wanmankylung – Lets see what professor Dunleavy (he of the £200 million figure) told us:

In the Scottish case the government has actually set out in its White Paper a reasonable timetable for
implementing changes, shown in Figure 4. The key decision that Salmond and colleagues have made is to move rather briskly from a Yes vote to independence, but to focus on just the key tasks already set out above. By 2016 Scotland will have policy control of some of the biggest issues, but even in defence its capability will only just be beginning, and no complete separation from UK systems is envisaged

Even in important areas like defence planning, back office and procurement, and some taxes, it will take a considerable time for Scotland to build up its own systems. And in some technical areas, that matter a lot less for Scottish policymaking, the transition will take more than seven years. For instance, Figure 4 shows that the registering of vehicles and licensing of drivers carried out by DVLA and three other UK agencies will continue to be based in Swansea until at least 2021.

So what would happen with things that have not been moved over to full Scottish control? The Scottish government will obviously want to brand and manage all its communications with citizens – so websites and forms would now carry the Saltaire and contact details for staff based in Scotland. But behind the scenes, for some years the ‘back office’ systems for both tax systems and benefits would need to run through the existing, very complicated computer and IT set-ups in the HMRC and DWP. And only when these systems were fully replaced with new Scottish ones would ministers in Edinburgh gain the full freedom to vary benefits for Scottish citizens (planned for 2018) and personal taxes in Scotland (planned for 2020).

Throughout these longer transition periods then, how would Scotland continue to get the continuing services it needs from Whitehall? The details would need to be negotiated with the rUK, but in every case Scotland would have to pay the existing costs for these services, plus a small addition:

– Either via a financial agreement between the two governments for whole sets of services to be provided. This would be the cheapest to agree on.
– Or by Scotland contracting with the UK to get specific tasks carried out. This could be somewhat more expensive, since writing contracts in detail and then monitoring performance adds to costs.
– Or by Scotland leasing whole sets of equipment, and even associated operating staff and support staff, for defined periods of time.

Eh naw – how can they possibly be rUK assets when there is as yet no rUK? Your argument is bobbins

Have you looked at the polls there is never going to be a rUK. So why do you keep dreaming about an iScotland that will never be.

The SNP have answers for plans A, B, C and D which they have published. Namely pound flexible, pound pegged, new scottish currency and euro.

Have you looked at the polls there is never going to be a rUK. So why do you keep dreaming about an iScotland that will never be.

And you are complaining that Alex Salmond doesn’t answer questions – is your name Alistair Darling?

So why couldn’t he answer live on TV what plan b is and why is he still sticking to his guns in the link I have provided a moment ago. The guy is turning the independence movement into a joke. You need to distance yourselves to get some credibility back.

My tax office is in East Kilbride. There is also a tax office at Haymarket in Edinburgh. There are DVLA offices all over Scotland. I do believe that there is a passport office in Glasgow. They’d be scottish assets.

They’d be UK institutions, just like they are now.

So why couldn’t he answer live on TV what plan b is and why is he still sticking to his guns in the link I have provided a moment ago.

Probably because he answered the question which was what currency will be used in the event of a yes vote – the answer is the pound.

They’d be UK institutions, just like they are now.

The UK consists of Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. I can’t see either of the other three having much use for any of those assets – some might say they’d be liabilities for those three after independence.

Yes the rUK would definitely be the lender of last resort to a foreign country wouldn’t it. You are welcome to dream about a currency union as that is all it will ever be.

Personally, I dont really see currency as being a massive issue. I’d happily take a new scottish currency as my first choice.

The referendum is about far more important things than cash.

I agree that there are other important issues but currency was one of the most important issues to Scots in a poll that I saw. Admittedly it was back at the start of the year.

Personally, I would be happy to pay a lot more tax and have less cash if it meant that we could have a fairer society. That’s what I believe a yes vote will achieve.

Nope he’s proposing a “competitive tax” policy nasty those nasty English, so you won’t even (at the corp level) have the chance to pay more tax 😉

Currency…massive issue…he who contro…err may be not again!!!!

There is no rUK and never will be. In the event that Scotland votes yes then it is choosing to leave the UK. The UK will continue to exist now and in the future.

If the vote is yes then the discussions will have to work which assets and debt needs to be transferred to Scotland, and remember that the UK will be aiming to get the best value for the UK. If AS is charge of the discussions then I hope he is better than he was the other night or Scotland may end up with nothing!

There is no rUK and never will be. In the event that Scotland votes yes then it is choosing to leave the UK. The UK will continue to exist now and in the future.

Of course, but it makes it a lot easier to differentiate who you’re talking about.

Nope he’s proposing a “competitive tax” policy nasty those nasty English, so you won’t even (at the corp level) have the chance to pay more tax

He is indeed (though I’m sure the white paper doesn’t use the phrase ‘nasty nasty english – you can’t help yourself can you), but that’s something that can and will change as governments come and go.

wanmankylung – Member
The SNP have answers for plans A, B, C and D which they have published. Namely pound flexible, pound pegged, new scottish currency and euro.

Are you sure about that. Yes, others arrangements were considered but then rejected because (sshh, remaining part of the UK and it’s) currency union is in YS’ opinionin the best interest is Scotland. It’s perfectly clear.

The Scottish Government is clear that sterling will continue to be the currency of an independent Scotland. This decision is based on an analysis of the potential impact of the alternative currency options on Scottish people and businesses, including the ease with which they can conduct their business with people and companies across the rest of the UK and beyond.

You can stop the English being nasty too? His magic never ceases.

Personally, I would be happy to pay a lot more tax and have less cash if it meant that we could have a fairer society. That’s what I believe a yes vote will achieve.

Will it be any fairer for some of rUK’s worst off? No? Thought not.

that’s something that can and will change as governments come and go.

“Will change” ? You’re predicting future Scottish government taxation policy with some certainty ? That’s impressive, specially as it clearly contradicts SNP taxation policy.

So presumably you think that the SNP will have no significant role to play in future Scottish governments. What do you base that prediction on ?

Or are you simply certain that the SNP will change their taxation policy, in which case again what to you base that prediction on ?

Will it be any fairer for some of rUK’s worst off? No? Thought not.

I don’t trust the westminster government to create a fairer society and there aren’t enough scots to force the issue. My yes vote is as said aimed and me getting to live in a fairer society.

So presumably you think that the SNP will have no significant role to play in future Scottish governments.

That is exactly what I predict.

wanmankylung – Member

The referendum is about far more important things than cash.

agreed.

Personally, I dont really see currency as being a massive issue. I’d happily take a new scottish currency as my first choice.

it would pose a teeny tiny problem for the tourism industry though – it would turn an easy, impromptu, weekend jolly into a teeny, tiny, pain in ar53.

“(thursday night) Peebles this weekend love?”

“great idea darling, can you make it to the bereau de change during Lunch tomorrow?”

“er, no.”

“oh sod it, we’ll just go to North Wales instead”

I’m an Englishman, living in England. fwiw (not a lot), i’m a supporter of an Independant Scotland.

That is exactly what I predict.

That’s impressive, but I did ask what do you base that prediction on ?

Is there any evidence of an imminent post-Yes vote collapse of SNP electoral support ?

it would pose a teeny tiny problem for the tourism industry though – it would turn an easy, impromptu, weekend jolly into a pain in ar53.

“(thursday night) Peebles this weekend love?”

“great idea darling, can you make it to the bereau de change during Lunch tomorrow?”

“er, no.”

“oh sod it, we’ll just go to North Wales instead”

I see no problem with that. 😉 Empty trails are a good thing.

Is there any evidence of an imminent post-Yes vote collapse of SNP electoral support ?

I base it on the idea that Labour would shift position back to where they should be which is the position that is taken up by the SNP at present. Scots would vote for a proper Labour party rather than the SNP any day of the week.

Is there any evidence of an imminent post-Yes vote collapse of SNP electoral support ?

I would have thought not. I reckon other party’s will flounder about for a fairly long period, whilst trying to adjust. People will rally around the SNP until everything is sorted out.

I can’t imagine a labour led government at Holyrood trying to divide the assets and liabilities with a labour led government at Westminster.

Only when we are settled and Salmond has no scapegoat for Scotland’s problems, can I see other parties getting a look in.