I struggle with long sentences, however time marches on and I say No, don’t do it scotland. It’s not the 13th century.

It was not me who started the cross posting and I agree cross posting [ out of context] is poor form.

You can play wherever you please though I think you may struggle to be the silly one on here [ not aimed at THM or any one else just a general sarccy comment on how silly we have all got at times on this thread]

I struggle with long sentences, however time marches on and I say No, don’t do it scotland. It’s not the 13th century.

Well, that’s true. Which is why I’d like to live in a democracy, and one that hasn’t started three wars in the last decade. Self determination is a very modern thing, and that’s what I want – a monarchy with a massive unelected House of Lords is much more 13th Century than an independent Scotland would ever be.

Junkyard – lazarus

It was not me who started the cross posting and I agree cross posting [ out of context] is poor form.

You can play wherever you please though I think you may struggle to be the silly one on here [ not aimed at THM or any one else just a general sarccy comment on how silly we have all got at times on this thread]

😆 I have been invited to play! (Peter Griffin getting excited!)

I support Scottish independence.

You don’t … yes?

😈

Based in London but run by Scots. Not saying Scots should not write just that they might be slightly biased

You seriously think that the people who inspired Thatcher are Scottish nationalists?

I am largely agnostic on the issue as I cannot vote but my position remains I would vote for almost anything that guarantees the tories would never rule over me.
The No voters on here probably consider me to be a Yes voter but I am a very weak one.

ben is the pro yes voice
THM the strong no voice and he is not a fan of AS

You?

Which is why I’d like to live in a democracy, one that hasn’t started three wars in the last decade

I’m fairly sure that no one in the UK has started any war in the ten years let alone three of them.

Your history appears to be poor.

It’s not even the 14th century. 😀

I am pro Yes for Scottish independence.

It does not make sense to be ruled for so long …

😀

Sometimes this thread needs a ‘time out’ and a big ‘group hug’

How many days…….

Gordimhor – Sorry, I didn’t look up the exact results so was using the rough numbers I could recall and some creative rounding up and down so I could do the adding up in my head without having to take my shoes and socks off 😳

The basic premise of my stance still stands though; there are lots of people who vote in Scotland who did vote for the current UK government and there has been “time after time after time after time”. Any claims to the contrary are just tub thumping nationalism BS spouted by the likes of WOS and swallowed as gospel by the believers. And as Junkyard later admitted, he’s not really interested in democracy he just wants any system which prevents a tory government – which in itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing just don’t try and dress it up as something else 😉

If you want to see some real statistical gymnastics you should look at the nat sympathizer sites trying to claim that people who thought Salmond won the debate but failed to convert ‘Don’t Knows’ to ‘Yes’ is somehow a win situation vs. the majority who thought Darling won the debate and changed their minds from ‘Don’t Know’ to ‘No’.

I’m fairly sure that no one in the UK has started any war in the ten years let alone three of them.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. Okay, slightly more than 10 years.

No one in the UK started a war in Libya. And Afghanistan and Iraq, more than ten tears ago, were started by a Scottish born and raised politician.

Although I suggest you blame the English – the Scots have a long history of hating wars which presumably is why they never enlist to fight in the British armed forces.

Where did I blame the English?

41 days to go….

Where did I blame the English?

You obviously managed to misread my post even though it wasn’t very long. Have another go reading this bit :

Although I suggest you blame the English – the Scots have a long history of hating wars which presumably is why they never enlist to fight in the British armed forces.

The bit you need to particularly focus on is “I suggest” this implies a proposition, ie, I’m offering the suggestion that you should blame the English because obviously Scots have a long history of hating wars – they would never join the armed forces and fight wars if it wasn’t for the English. Obviously.

Why do Scottish soldiers join up? The same reason African Americans do, and many other groups – poverty and lack of other prospects. The political system is to blame, not any particular nationality.

Amazing how many times this has to be said: This isn’t about Scottish vs English.

The same reason African Americans do, and many other groups – poverty and lack of other prospects.

So Scots live in poverty and lack of “prospects” ? ….like African Americans apparently.

You learn something new everyday here.

Sometimes this thread needs a ‘time out’ and a big ‘group hug’

Every day it needs that tbh and I am not sure my shins will last till the end tbh.

The basic premise of my stance still stands though; there are lots of people who vote in Scotland who did vote for the current UK government and there has been “time after time after time after time”.

Indeed and we would call tory voters the tiny minority or the party that came last. I am not sure why you wish to describe that as lots or as democratic tbh.

Any claims to the contrary are just tub thumping nationalism BS spouted by the likes of WOS and swallowed as gospel by the believers.

The least amount of votes go to the tories who have the fewest seats in Scotland. Yes that is how anyone should describe uncomfortable facts, they do not like, that are true 🙄

And as Junkyard later admitted, he’s not really interested in democracy he just wants any system which prevents a tory government – which in itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing just don’t try and dress it up as something else

I am not really interested in independence/nationalism rather than the false claim I am not interested in democracy- Ot is what I am arguing with you and you are the one arguing its ok that the ones who came last rule you…oh the ironing.
Every time a tory is governing scotland it is not due to the votes in scotland no matter how much you torture logic to suggest otherwise.

Your interpretation is beyond spin and is not a credible view.

Which Scottish born and raised politician Ernie? Anthony Blair for example spent some of his childhood in Scotland some in Australia and from 1961 lived in Durham according to wikipedia

I have less of a NO voice, rather a complete intolerance of AS, the actual case being out forward (or lack of it) and the grotesque deceit and lies that are being used to make a case on an issue of such importance. In general, I am sympathetic to devolved power and to reducing the role of government’s in general – my libertarian streak. In fact, if a genuine case for independence was put forward I would expect to be in support of many of the pillars and tolerant of supporting Scotland in the challenge of transition. But that requires honesty about the case and the challenges up front instead of the yS BS.

Having watched AS over quite a period I do not accept that he is this masterful politician. Yes, in a small pool he has been able to bully the limited opposition into submission with classic tactics. But it is refreshing that his bluff has now been called and his balloon well and truly burst. It took too long. The smug positioning of Scottish interests would be acceptable – that is what he is there to do after all – if that didn’t lead to this nonsense that anyone representing rUKs interested was simply displaying his 3Bs. As this week has shown, at some point he really does have to be honest about core issues. Equally no surprise that iS supporters are also looking to distance themselves from the DO. Good idea.

KB talks about dropping the currency (JMK ) references. But that would be silly. Why? Because if you read the work of the fiscal commission and other bodies who analyse the currency options and understand why they come the conclusion that they do, then the answer is blatantly obvious – you stay as part of a union. The choice (by yS) of £ reflects the fact that the Uk satisfies most of the criteria for an optimum currency area (unlike Europe). This is the conclusion reached by YS’ own analysis. And that is EXACTLY why Scottish and rUK interests are best served by the status quo and why the union has worked very well to date – funny how yS argue how stong the economy is within the status quo. That’s true and darling shouldn’t be scared of the fact. But the best case for the union is currently being given by yS itself. The ultimate irony caused by the elephant in the room. No one has out forward the case for independence of policy etc and all that goes with it.

Finally, it’s not acceptable to say that all politicians lie. This is deceit on a scale not seen since the Europe debate. The blatant untruths re the currency, how monetary policy works, how the CU would work, walking away on debt, tax and spending, pensions, NS Oil are unbecoming for a debate of this importance. And no, it’s not just a Scottish issue. This BS affects the whole of the UK.

Fortunately, the polls suggest that the majority of Scots are canny and able enough to see bought the BS. In the end, the sensible ones will win either way since all main Uk parties will bend over backwards to devolve more power and responsibility – and good for that. Of course, in doing this they are creating a very uneven playing field for other parts of the UK. Pandora’s box has been well and truly opened now….

it’s not acceptable to say that all politicians lie.

it is because they do
whether this is the greatest or not is a mute point decided by your own views/biases [ we all have them].
Personally i would say tory pledges regarding the NHS are at a greater level – ie they really did not mean it for one second. It is possible that AS might think he will get a currency union and everything else as well as he has reports etc. I am not commenting on whether it is credible or likely or anything but we cannot be certain he does not believe what he says just because you/most folk think he is wrong.
He is definitely being unrealistic [ overall] but he may be the Deluded one rather than the deceitful one

Pandora’s box has been well and truly opened now.

Indeed the west lothian question will need a serious answer as that is where the imbalance will likely lie
It will be undemocratic when there is a labour govt forcing things through in england using MPs who are unaffected by the change.

FWIW I also like federalism but i do not mind big govt as long as it helps and it does not spy.

It upsets me to be in agreement with Junkyard

I feel unclean

FWIW I quite like your posts though you do get a bit off on one when the subject drifts on to pies 😉

Do they still sell pies like this ?
Do they have a name like plain bread?

Have you ever tries a butter pie? Northern delicacy Binners can tell you more

I gained weight just looking at the butter pie

Yes, they still make such high calibre pie products

You cruel, heartless bastard.

Some of us here are vegetarian 😉

here ben a vegetarian pie for you

Best wishes the Vegan 😉

Not a dig just a joke

I’d eat that.

Not willingly, but, you know, if I had to.

you are the one arguing its ok that the ones who came last rule you…oh the ironing

No, I’ve never argued that at all so you can put the ironing board away.

Your claim is that Scotland never voted for the current government (well it’s crept to that, from the initial position of “time and time and time again”) but Scotland is not a single homogenous voting entity and making a sweeping statement that Scotland voted for XYZ is verifiably false, there are currently 12 MPs in the UK government who ‘Scotland’ voted for and it could be argued that using a more proportional form of representation that there should be more (36%*59=21)but we can probably agree to gloss over the fact that the ‘broken’ Westminster system hugely over-represents Labour in Scotland.

Clearly the majority of people didn’t vote Lib or Con, ~2.5million people voted in the election and only about 900k of those voted for the current government but you want to ignore those peoples opinions because their political views don’t match yours or those of another group of voters irrespective of the fact that ~16.5million people agree with them.

Every time a tory is governing scotland it is not due to the votes in scotland no matter how much you torture logic to suggest otherwise

I never did suggest otherwise. Although if you go back to 1951……… 😉

Your interpretation is beyond spin and is not a credible view.

It might not be credible if I was claiming what you are trying to claim that I am claiming.

Clearly the majority of people didn’t vote Lib or Con,

So we agree that Scotland did not get the govt they voted for
Thanks that was time well spent.

Why do Scottish soldiers join up? The same reason African Americans do, and many other groups – poverty and lack of other prospects.

For many, it was the only way to escape the entrenched discrimination against Scots in the UK, the lynchings, the biased laws to stop Scots voting, the segregation…ffs, have a word with yourself.

PS black Americans are about 14% of the US population and about 16% of the military. It’s pretty much proportional in other words.

For many, it was the only way to escape the entrenched discrimination against Scots in the UK, the lynchings, the biased laws to stop Scots voting, the segregation…ffs, have a word with yourself.

Wow, nice use of hyperbole there 😉

All the people I know who have joined the military (around half a dozen or so) did so because of lack of opportunities elsewhere. But I accept the statistics are mixed.

http://www.forceswatch.net/resources/army-recruiters-visit-londons-poorest-schools-most-often

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110302528.html

Who Serves in the Military Today?

But I’ll freely admit I can’t fathom why anyone would want to join the military – I really don’t get it.

All the people I know who have joined the military (around half a dozen or so) did so because of lack of opportunities elsewhere. But I accept the statistics are mixed.

You’ve not met the boys and girls in light blue then?

Wow, nice use of hyperbole there

That’s not hyperbole. I meant the opposite of what I said. Hyperbole would be where I exaggerated what I said for rhetorical effect but still meant the central concept – for example, “you are without doubt displaying the worst self-pitying victim complex I have ever come across and (being Scottish) I’ve encountered a lot of self-pitying whiners”. That would be hyperbole.

Dunno. Yes? No?

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand, have we done the fact that Chris Akabusi wants Scotland to stay? And a bunch of other celebs, of course – not just him.

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand

The subject in hand was your claim that you are supporting the Yes Camp partly because you were opposed to wars which you claimed were started in the last 10 years.

Or by the subject at hand did you mean “Osbourne says no to currency union” ?

Either way it wasn’t about Chris Akabusi.

I think what you really meant to say was “Anyway, I’ve dug myself into a hole, so let’s change the subject” 💡

The subject in hand was your claim that you are supporting the Yes Camp partly because you were opposed to wars which you claimed were started in the last 10 years.

Yup, and that’s still true – though maybe it’s more like 13 years. Anyhow, they’re wars that have gotten us nothing apart from lots of dead people.

I think what you really meant to say was “Anyway, I’ve dug myself into a hole, so let’s change the subject”

Well, everyone else does it – or if they can’t they try to lighten it up with a smiley 😉

here is one for you THM

Wow, judgmental or what? I guess social justice does not extent to treating others with due respect?

Again you are an example to us all in this respect and can i just go on record as thanking you for the constant respect with which you treat me

Is there anything you object to that you do not do ?

I cannot wait for the respect I get now for pointing this out 😉

You are beyond parody

Yawn – excuse me, I will go back to the fully deserved level of respect ie, to ignore trolls completely.

Apologies for ever so slightly getting sucked into troll acknowledgement/responding recently – my error. The daily trolling (while often amusing) became tiring and judgement slipped. Normal, deserved and appropriate service levels will now be restored.

I hope, however, that the water levels stay low, I would miss the daily amusement factor.