Orange ST4 – Who voted it as Readers Award Best Bike without riding it first?

The new ST4 has been getting some less-than complimentary press recently in the “wider” MTB media community, yet we as a forum voted it as the best bike in the Singletrack awards a couple of months ago. I’ve been interested in a slightly more all-day/marathon bias Orange 5 style bike from a British brand for awhile, so the arrival of the new ST4 seemed like it might fit the bill, and led me to vote for it in the awards as the bike I was most excited about for the year.

I still haven’t tried one out on the trails, but recent reviews have led me to wonder how many other people voted for the ST4 based purely on what they thought the bike might be like.

For the record, i’d still really like a demo ride on the ST4 😀

Spoilsport.

Don’t expect us to value experience over opinion.

You’ll be telling us Father Christmas isn’t real next.

voted for the ST4 based purely on what they thought the bike might be like

People gave an opinion on something they’d never experienced?
Wow. How meaningless would those opinions be!

One more thing to add to my “evidence that people are stupid” file…
(It’s a pretty big file. I feature a lot 😕 ).

I still haven’t tried one out on the trails, but recent reviews have led me to wonder how many other people voted for the ST4 based purely on what they thought the bike might be like.

For the record, i’d still really like a demo ride on the ST4
This from my experience you must do.
If I had based my choice of FS bike on mag reviews I would not have test ridden the bike I did buy, a Kona Dawg Supreme. Which according to some reviews lived up to it`s name, a Dawg!!
Over a period of 3yrs I attended as many test days as possible, riding as many FS bikes as I could and ended up with the least likely contender, according to mags anyway.
btw an acquaintance of mine has just bought one and had his first ride around his local woods, Kirroughtree, and is raving about it.
For the record I would not buy any Orange.Steve Wade the owner/designer is a really nice bloke, have spent a few days riding with him in the past and been to the factory but still not my cup of tea.

I take WMB/MBR/MBUK/BikeRadar reviews with a pich of salt and have been doing so for some time. With the exception of Singletrack, I feel they might be compromised by advertising revenue / big brand pressure.

I was just wondering how many of us base our views on opinion alone.

If you are going to say that of magazines, Why the exception of Singletrack?
Surely you should take all opinions with a pinch of salt?

Fair point… the whole thing is based on opinions, including our view of the various MTB rags.

I rode the first model, the old one, and although a little weighty it felt great, given Orange’s tendency to refne their bikes I’ve no doubt that the st4 is even better now. I take all reviews with a pinch of salt, I’d never buy a bike without demoing it first.

I’ve come to think that some of the mag reviewers haven’t even ridden the stuff they test given my experience with some 5* bikes & components.

winner decided purely on advertising revenue?

Don’t blame the people, blame the polls.
Damn pointless asking me the “Best bike of the year” cos I only ride my own.
Best trail? Duh
Best event? Erm
Best bike shop? Well, there’s one down the road…
Best mag? Ah, now well!

I’ve come to think that some of the mag reviewers haven’t even ridden the stuff they test given my experience with some 5* bikes & components.

I agree, and having ridden some of the trails they describe in their route guides i’m not sure they’ve actually ridden them either (or been liberal with the truth).

Yep, such prizes should really be called “most successfully marketed bike”, “most succcessfully marketed new product” etc.

As I remember the poll even encouraged readers to pick at random if they had no direct experience of the nominated products.

If I had based my choice of FS bike on mag reviews I would not have test ridden the bike I did buy, a Kona Dawg Supreme

I rode a Dawg for 2 days in Moab and it was superb, TBH. I’d have one before I’d get an ST4 any day. It’s just a tough, chuckable bike with not too much travel. Nice. 🙂

Yep, such prizes should really be called “most successfully marketed bike”, “most succcessfully marketed new product” etc.

As I remember the poll even encouraged readers to pick at random if they had no direct experience of the nominated products.

Good press for Orange though who make a big point of the fact that the ST4 won the best bike award on their website.

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/2011/st4_se/

PeterPoddy – Member
If I had based my choice of FS bike on mag reviews I would not have test ridden the bike I did buy, a Kona Dawg Supreme
I rode a Dawg for 2 days in Moab and it was superb, TBH. I’d have one before I’d get an ST4 any day. It’s just a tough, chuckable bike with not too much travel. Nice

Nicknamed mine the Hooligan due to the chuckability and the fact it just bounces over any obstacle. Definitely in the skill compensatory bracket 😆
6yrs old now and due for a summer rebuild, the Pig has kinda overshadowed it the past yr 😕

me

just out of interest, i followed that link to see what orange had made of winning the award. now, don’t get me wrong, i’m happy orange owner, my 2005 five is going strong. however…

£4500 for the ST4 SE? really?

I did, yes, then bought one. A 2010 model, so the ‘old’ design. I think it’s a great bike, but I got mine ex-demo so was a complete bargain. I don’t think Orange’s complete builds are good VFM.

Dunno what reviews the OP has seen, although I suspect the Bikeradar one will be one of them. It’s a terribly conceived and written review, in my opinion!

I agree, the BikaRadar review is terrible. Some of the things they say really make me wonder what their opinions are really based on.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/st4-pro-11-41529?CPN=RSS&SOURCE=BRGENHOME

Why is the review terrible? Seems clear and well written to me. I think Guy Kesteven is one of the most technically knowledgeable and straight talking in the business, and the main reason I occasionally buy WMB or MBUK.

Er, the guff about the tapered head tube and not-as-slack-as-a-slack-thing-Orange-5 head angle causing it to lose stability? The bit about the tyres not being much cop despite Bikeradar themselves giving them a glowing review? The ‘detuned’ bit (admittedly they’re alleging to quote Orange on this one)? Some waffle about weight differences without any real reference point?

Basically he’s saying “buy a 5, it’s better” instead of comparing the ST4 with similar bikes e.g. Yeti ASR5, Treak Ex8, Spesh Camber, which are v. similar bikes.

The stand alone review isn’t that bad, but compared against previous articles/reviews of the bike and it’s parts there are a huge number of contadictions in there. I’ve never used Maxxis Advantage tyres, but in their magazine and previous reviews they’re recommended as best tyre in it’s class as an all-rounder. I the ST4 review they’re completely slagged off.

I guess that on the tyres it’s GK’s personal opinion and there isn’t one ‘company line’. I take the point re the effect of the standard headtube on downhill stability – hard to believe it makes that much of a difference. Overall the review seems quite consistent with the one in the latest Singletrack. I’m sure the ST4 is a great bike, but it could perhaps do with being a wee bit lighter. That said, my old Kona Dawg is a heavyweight but is still one of the best bikes I’ve ridden 🙂

From the first time i saw one i thought that if i was going to go FS then the ST4 would be the bike i would go for, even more so from the new design. And then when Matt from STW was on one at Lee Quarry and said it wasn’t a quarry bike, i wanted one even more!! 😀

I was riding at Dalby about a year ago the MBUK wrecking crew! were there, we did 2 loops of the black and they remained in the same spot on both occasions when we came round, clothes clean and bikes not very dirty. Not sure if they did a report on the trails or not but if they were only testing equipment it does not seem to be that representative to ride up and down the same bit of trail over and over again.

I rode last years, and liked it – felt ‘bottom-less’.

I haven’t rode this years model, but speaking with someone who did he ‘just didn’t get on with it’.

I was riding at Dalby about a year ago the MBUK wrecking crew! were there, we did 2 loops of the black and they remained in the same spot on both occasions when we came round, clothes clean and bikes not very dirty. Not sure if they did a report on the trails or not but if they were only testing equipment it does not seem to be that representative to ride up and down the same bit of trail over and over again.

Some of the action photos from reviews in MBUK and WMB look like there superimposed to me as the bikes are always clean and the bike and the rider down look quite right against the terrain. Maybe they were taking some ‘action’ shots in the car park to transfer onto some gnarly trail in the magazine…

If I had based my choice of FS bike on mag reviews I would not have test ridden the bike I did buy, a Kona Dawg Supreme. Which according to some reviews lived up to it`s name, a Dawg!!

I agree with that, MBR said my 6″ travel Rocky Mountain Slayer had ineffective rear suspension and felt more like a 3″ travel bike. In reallity in soaks up all sizes of hits better than any other bike I’ve riden including Intense, Specialized and Turner 4 bar designs.

The ratings are normally based on advertising revenue or how good the new year range launch party/jolly is. Strange that the magazines always love Orange’s other bikes. Perhaps Orange made the ST4 bad (I haven’t riden one, so don’t know if the critisism is justified) on purpose to increase sales of the 5…

I have just bought a 2011 ST4, i love it, i wanted a bike that was perfect for the trails near me (kirroughtree, mabie, dalbeattie etc) and this bike had everything i wanted. I was going to get a five, but i am quite a light guy, so i dont need 140mm travel, plus i was used to riding a hardtail for a while so anything with suspension feels amazing 😉

I think the ST4 handles really nice, head and seat angles seem good, very solid back end, and the pro pedal really firms it up too also it doesn,t bob about that much.
Yes it is a bit heavy for a 4 inch bike, but it is a trail bike so is built a bit beefier than an XC bike.

Cant fault mine yet, and i dont give a flying $hit what MBR say about it!!
Dave

Well said BigDave 😀

A few years ago i was at a test with european journos sampling a few new models from a manufacturer.The test involved 2 downhill runs on the full sus bikes,about 40 minutes in total.The new model hardtail never left the van as nobody fancied it on the tough downhill.Surprisingly,it did get a good review though a few weeks later in a British mag .
The main full sus bike on test had its suspension lets say “tuned” in order to give a better ride than the showroom bike.The test wasn’t thorough,more like a free junket in a foreign part for the journos.

There’s no better review than your own on a demo day or borrowing a mate’s bike, it’s all subjective and there are so many variables such as your own skill level and fitness, type of trails you ride, riding style/preference etc etc. I’m sure BikeRadar have other variables involved too such as advertising revenue and freebies at the brand launches etc.

wors – Member
And then when Matt from STW was on one at Lee Quarry and said it wasn’t a quarry bike, i wanted one even more!!

seems strange when people ride all over Lee Quarry on every shape of bike imaginable

even these

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/rockrider-5-0-women-s-2010-141401392/

amusing when being raced against Ibis Mojo’s