"Shaggmiester....so only 'XC' bikes are good climbers hey?? Not sure how you worked that one out."
dick ed, sorry nickegg, its quite simple really without going into all the bullshit talk that you seem to like doing! i have a p7 that goes quicker uphill than my 5, and my 5 goes quicker uphill than my patriot!!!
Bike Forum
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Orange 5 inefficient climbing bike?
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Posted 2 years ago #
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If anyone was to look at the axle-path of any bike up to 150mm travel (which aint far, really!), they'd realise that a curved (single pivot) path is not a million miles different from a straight axle path at the chain-stay lengths used.
I was always scathing of single pivots after 7 yrs of riding FSRs, however there isn't a great deal in it. Lots of it is marketing BS.
Posted 2 years ago # -
In answer to the original question Yes.
Posted 2 years ago # -
shaggmiester - Member
"Shaggmiester....so only 'XC' bikes are good climbers hey?? Not sure how you worked that one out."
dick ed, sorry nickegg, its quite simple really without going into all the bullshit talk that you seem to like doing! i have a p7 that goes quicker uphill than my 5, and my 5 goes quicker uphill than my patriot!!!
But I'm assuming that you'd only use the P7 and 5 for gnarly towpaths, and the Patriot for Dalby, so how would you know if the 5 goes uphill quicker or not?
BTW do you wear a full face helmet for the towpaths?
Posted 2 years ago # -
But basing an argument purely on axle path is irrelevant when comparing multi links with single pivots. Because as the IC changes, it affects the damping requirements, due to the differing leverage ratios at different parts of the stroke. So it doesn't matter so much where the axle path goes, just how the spring rate and damper manage the progression of the IC through it's arc.
I agree that keeping it simple is the key, and the single pivot is the easiest way to manage these facets of suspension design. And it's been refined in some bikes to the point of near perfection as far as overall performance.
The Orange 5 is the epitome of this progression in suspension design IMO.Posted 2 years ago # -
any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.
What on earth do you mean?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I thought the Swinger 3 had SPV on it to stop the bobbing.
Have you put air in the SPV chamber?
Also try putting a few more PSI into the main shock
bring the saddle forward around 10mm.
Other than that get the shock serviced or buy a second hand RP23
and get it TFTuned to your bike and wheight when it needs servicing.Posted 2 years ago # -
bring the saddle forward around 10mm ? how do you know were he has it it now ?
I had a 03 Sub 5 and it climbed really well and i had the basic Rockshok Sid shock on it, the only thing that could be a little off putting was the amount of feed back through the pedals on technical climbs, the feel for traction made up for that though.
Almost bought another last year but got a Whyte E120 ( you'll not like this ) as it rides Better and the warranty is amazing .Posted 2 years ago # -
"But I'm assuming that you'd only use the P7 and 5 for gnarly towpaths, and the Patriot for Dalby, so how would you know if the 5 goes uphill quicker or not?
BTW do you wear a full face helmet for the towpaths? "
soz idle jon i was just trying to take the piss out of people like you.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well done Shaggmiester.......You've resorted to rudeness instead of making an adult response.
I asked a simple guestion and that's the response i get?
It is this very reason i get so fed-up with people like you.....i give my response in regards to a bike i owned and my experiences....what is about 5's hey???????
Posted 2 years ago # -
erm, I rode an orange five up a few very steep climbs, both on and off road (with fox pro pedal)and had no issues! are you guys sat facing the correct direction?
Posted 2 years ago # -
shagmeister falls off his bikes too often to know if they are good at climbing....or not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have A Sub-5 with pikes and although it climbs fine in a straight line, it absolutely refuses to go around the tight switchbacked corners so beloved of trail centres. I guess I'm running too much travel up front and screwing up the geometry. (But it does descend like an absoulte demon)
Posted 2 years ago # -
The 5 with a lockout? Good climbing potential.
The Five - not as good (but not awful by any means).Head angle slacker on the 'Five' than on the '5'.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The best 5 out there is a 5 Spot.
Posted 2 years ago # -
the sub 5 is designed around a 100mm fork with max 120mm so i'm not surprised it doesn't climb well with pikes! I've got 100mm rebas on mine which feel spot on.
Posted 2 years ago # -
the sub 5 is designed around a 100mm fork with max 120mm so i'm not surprised it doesn't climb well with pikes! I've got 100mm rebas on mine which feel spot on.
Yeah I suspected that. The pikes were fitted when I bought it, so I never really thought about it until the bike kept trying to "fold under" on me in tight turnsPosted 2 years ago # -
sorry nickegg, all i was trying to say was i'v owned most fives since the sub5 and im not saying you can't climb on them, i find them easy to climb on, but the geometrys changed, h/a a lot slacker over the years and so it is harder to climb on than previous models, but at the end of the day, its a trail bike so has to be made for rougher riding, and if climbings your number 1 thing, then get a shorter travel bike with geometry to suit such as a xc bike, gollygosh cant believe im getting sucked into all this, just sat at home feeling pissed as i cant ride mine for at least another 6 weeks! dont mean to take it out on anyone, oh yeah cheers ton, but why are'nt you out riding?
Posted 2 years ago # -
you guys that are running 5's and the hand job , what size 5 u got and what size handjob ? I've got a 18" orange but not sure what size handjob ? cheers
Posted 2 years ago # -
bin the echo-box and get a trance X
Posted 2 years ago # -
IdleJon - Member
any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.
Have you actually ever ridden a single pivot, or is that just an 'internet fact'?
My Rush climbs as well as any other full-sus I've ever ridden.
Then you need to ride more full-sus's
I have owned a 2008 rush and it was frankly crap at climbing. There is a reason why most manufacturers have moved away from SP designs, they are simply too prone to bobbing all over the place. Ride a modern marin or whyte design (a company now sworn away from SP) and notice the actual ability to tackle technical climbs .. whilst sat down .. with the suspension still working! If you lock/pro-pedal a shock then you are simply stopping the design 'working' and you'll just slow yourself down as the rear wheel stutters and smacks into roots and rocks that the suspension should be dealing with.
How many professional XC riders do you see rocking a SP bike? hmmm. SP translates to fun, hooligan bikes - like Orange produces. Nowt wrong with that but if you want genuine versatility look at something like a Trek EX or Whyte e120.
I have worked in bike retail for many years and test ridden many many bikes, but these are simply my subjective thoughts and experiences.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You must be right - all those SP Santa Cruz etc are not selling at all
Posted 2 years ago # -
How many professional XC riders do you see rocking a SP bike? hmmm. SP translates to fun, hooligan bikes - like Orange produces. Nowt wrong with that but if you want genuine versatility look at something like a Trek EX or Whyte e120.
But isn't the EX a single pivot, all be it with a linkage to drive the shock? The axle path is still an arc around the main pivot. Just being a smart arse, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments.
Posted 2 years ago # -
nixon-fiend, I worked in bike retail and warranty for many years as well -it means nothing other than the ability to demo plenty of bikes which I did as well - it certainly doesn't mean that you know what you're talking about.
If you can't climb efficiently on a single pivot then I'd suggest you learn how to pedal in circles rather than mash away at the pedals like a 6 year old.
Bringing up pro XC riders is pointless as they ride the bikes they are given.
Ride a modern marin or whyte design (a company now sworn away from SP) and notice the actual ability to tackle technical climbs .. whilst sat down .. with the suspension still working!
Are you saying that on a single pivot the suspension doesn't function when climbing sat down?
I'll fully accept that there are better climbing bikes out there than a single pivot, but you really are talking about small differences. As I said above, learn how to ride properly and suddenly a lot of that bobbing disappears...
Posted 2 years ago # -
The manitou Swinger with the SPV chamber was a brilliant shock! It's made for fire road climbs! Just put a bit more air in it (the SPV valve) and it should be absolutely bob free. They're not that hard to service yourself either. I think a seal pack is about £20 from CRC.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tyres? Bikes like the five tend to have fatter, stickier tyres. Why not try the tyres from your other bike, then compare the difference. Pro-pedal/lockout and adjustable forks also help. How a bike 'feels' has just as much to do with setup; it's not just the frame geometry or suspension design.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My abiding memory of demoing a 5 is how much hard work it was to pedal compared with a Giant and a GT. Whoever was riding it in our group of three, was some way at the back.
Posted 2 years ago # -
IdleJon - Member
If you can't climb efficiently on a single pivot then I'd suggest you learn how to pedal in circles rather than mash away at the pedals like a 6 year old.
For the benefits of discussion I was offering my thoughts and experiences on many of the bikes I've demo'ed and owned. There's simply no reason to get snotty or cast crude aspersions on the the skills of someone you don't know.
Obviously, sprinting out of the saddle uphill is not a great idea on a SP bike, but sometimes is called for to attack a steep slope or gain an advantage in a race. But even sat down, on the rush for example, you sit right into the travel and having the saddle bob up and down.. constantly changing the length & angle of your pedal stroke is a bit rubbish. Other bikes keep the saddle position much more isolated from the workings of the rear shock .. so you feel much more 'supported' and your legs can work better!
The rush is a lot of fun, great bike for carving corners with a low centre of gravity but sh*te on proper rocky techy climbs. IME
Posted 2 years ago # -
constantly changing the length & angle of your pedal stroke is a bit rubbish
How does it change the length of your pedal stroke if you're sat down?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Good point
Posted 2 years ago # -
Oh dear. "Where's my credibility gone?"
Posted 2 years ago # -
you can't compare the five to the rush! they're two totally differant bikes, the rush is bound to climb better, its a xc bike/ marathon bike and marins and treks are pussy bikes aswell!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Get back to your towpath shaggy!
Posted 2 years ago # -
ha! would the rush be able to cope with the rough terrain of a towpath?
Posted 2 years ago # -
You've got me bang to rights, shaggy. The Rush, being a normal single pivot can barely cope with a medium sized kerb. God knows how a 5 with its immense increase in travel and weight can get up ANY hill.
Keep it quiet though,ok?
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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