Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)
  • One For The Share Dealers – Nokia
  • andykirk
    Free Member

    So as usual I am late to the news and have just discovered today that Nokia will be releasing new Android mobile phones. I always thought Nokia made very good attractive phones and because of this I want to buy some stock.

    The thing is, it appears a company called HMD Global will be making the phones under licence from Nokia, with Nokia being paid royalties. Now, I can’t find HMD Global stock listed anywhere, and am wondering if buying Nokia stock will bring about any results, if of course these phones sell well, which I am confident they will if priced correctly. Can anyone who understands more about this than I do offer any input?

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    It sounds to me like a massive gamble and more of a heart over head decision.

    I thought Nokia were effectively dead now and that the name was bought by a large Chinese electronics company.

    The phones are branded Nokia, but I think that’s about it.

    Have you seen any of the reviews for the phones?
    Sounds like you need to do some more research, which I guess is why your on here asking…

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    petec
    Free Member

    nokia was bought by microsoft, who then changed CEO, and wrote off the $7bn, and windows phone as an OS (for the time being).

    the old finnish nokia managers then got backing and spent $350m buying the name back. There are four phones (3,5,6 and 8 or 9). And the 3310 of course.

    The smart phones get very good reviews indeed. Apparently £100 for the cheapest, £150 for the 5, and £200 for the 6. No idea on the 8 (or 9) yet.

    Are they better than (say) the vodafone own branded ones, which get excellent reviews as well? Dunno, but will be interesting to see.

    andykirk
    Free Member

    Apparently HMD Global are a Finnish company and have a number of old Nokia staff. The new phones look good to me and will hopefully retain the Scandanavian design ethos, which coupled with the brand name Nokia already have make me think this is worth a shot.

    In essence, my question is, if you can’t buy HMD Global stock is it worth buying Nokia stock given they are paid royalties.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Many moons back I watched a programme about South Korea and it covered an electronics company that seemed to doing all the right things to succeed. I wrote the name down and the next time I was in the bank asked to buy some shares. The bank got back to me the next day and gave me a long list of Korean companies all with the same name. We went through looking for Samsung electronics but failed to work out which one it was so I gave up. The company went on to do quite well.

    andykirk
    Free Member

    …so I have written to Nokia to ask them what the craic is. I will let you know what they say.

    Don’t say I didn’t tell you when the share price doubles 🙂

    beej
    Full Member

    You realise that they are mainly a network equipment company?

    5,378M euro revenue in the last quarter. Net loss of 489 million. Have you looked at any of their financials?
    https://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=NYSE%3ANOK&fstype=ii&ei=M64zWdCXJ9HBU-25i4AM

    If you believe their network equipment business is going to do well, then by some shares.

    Licence fees for use of their name on some 3rd party handsets will be buttons by comparison. Even at a euro per handset sold, it’s nothing in the general scheme of things.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Just buy Apple shares, they make 91% of all profit for the mobile phone industry.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-percent-of-global-smartphone-profits-research.html

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    Nokia could do well in the business sector, all the hype might be iPhone v Galaxy, but Samsung shift piles of junior android phones to business customers, it was the one sector that actually embraced Nokia Windows phones a few years ago.

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    HMD Global I assume will be a private ltd company, or whatever the Finnish equivalent is. So no stock traded.

    Shares in Nokia, not sure what benefit that brings as their main business excludes mobile as that’s the bit that was sold off and wrecked by Microsoft. Their input in NMD seems to be mainly advisory. The royalties I don’t know. Just on use of the name, or for design concepts also?

    Anyway, as a long term Nokia fan I’m keen on the new Nokia Android. I’m not a huge Android fan and abandoned it after some frustrations with the platform, going with Windows Phone to revert back to Nokia. I like WP but it’s dead now, and even as nice as the OS was it’s dropped way too behind advancements in Android. Android now might be in the right place as an OS for Nokia/NMD to pick up.

    I believe NMD are using a very clean version of Android, which makes it attractive to me. No bloat and mess like you get with Samsung. Operator deals though will layer on a load of bloat, but then the prices seem pretty reasonable to just buy the phones SIM free direct. They seem to have a good physical design, nice materials.

    Key though is robustness. That is where Nokia excelled. That and battery life. However my experience with Android has show that may been a problem for them. Usual solution by manufacturers is just to make the phones stupidly large so they can fit a big battery in them. Given the obsession with thin this then makes them very pocket unfriendly. If NMD are going beyond just generic Android device in a nice shell, but are concentrating on the quality of hardware and efficiency of components then maybe they can crack the battery life.

    I’m undecided though whether to go with the 6 or wait for the 8 or 9. I don’t really need a top end phone, but not sure if the 6 will be powerful enough for the bloat that comes with Android, or specifically Google’s services (at least from my previous experience, though it was a while back, but Google’s apps were killing the phone’s battery and consuming a lot of data). Price of the 6 is good though.

    Out of interest on the side, I’ve heard Microsoft are kind of coming out with Android phones. They aren’t, but they are backing Microsoft branding for other manufacturers on their phones. Basically “Powered by Microsoft” and they load the phones full of Microsoft’s Android apps. Thus Android phones with the Microsoft ecosystem. Though you can do that with any Android phone anyway. Seems to be the way MS are going with phones. They’re concentrating on making Android & iOS apps for Microsoft services.

    andykirk
    Free Member

    DeadKenny – thanks, interesting comments.

    I for sure would buy a Nokia Android mobile, as you say mainly for the ‘robustness’ and nice clean design that Nokia were known for. I wish Nokia had just done this in the first place instead of going with Microsoft. Samsung I wouldn’t touch, but then they are geared at the cheaper end of the market. I have Apple shares already and I can’t see them going down any time soon, unless Mr Trump mucks things up, which lets face it is highly likely.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Wasn’t one of the advantages Nokia had that it owned HW and SW design (back in the old days). If they’re just doing cheap HW and making mid market Android phones, they’ll struggle to differentiate themselves / make a profit. All the profit is in the high end of the market which Apple and Samsung dominate, with Apple making all the profit and Samsung just subsidising the rest of their range.

    Can’t see Nokia reclaiming its crown any time soon.

    They’re not leading anymore, just following everyone else.

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    Many are speculating that the smart phone has had its day. High end is saturated and not much further it can go. Everyone else had a decent enough phone and their next phone may just be a replacement just because their current stops working or is broken.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    andykirk – Member
    DeadKenny – thanks, interesting comments.

    Samsung I wouldn’t touch, but then they are geared at the cheaper end of the market.

    You haven’t seen any of their flagship phones, then?
    One of Samsung’s strongest hands is that they have a phone for virtually every budget…all the way up to the ‘more money than sense…’ end of the scale.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Many are speculating that the smart phone has had its day. High end is saturated and not much further it can go. Everyone else had a decent enough phone and their next phone may just be a replacement just because their current stops working or is broken.

    But going back to the OP, that’s no reason to expect Nokia shares to do well, they’re a bit player in a market which is completely saturated in the middle/lower tiers, which is why one company makes 91% of all profit in the mobile phone industry by only focussing on the premium end of the market.

    andykirk
    Free Member

    Footflaps – Nokia don’t have to lead, all they have to do is make a good phone. Nokia have their name and brand reputation already. I would say a lot of people who owned Nokias previously loved them and would buy them again.

    Deadkenny – I don’t agree. Take a look around, everyone is glued to their phones, technology will advance and phones/ wearables will only become even more a part of our lives.

    Stumpy – Sorry I misphrased what I wrote. What I meant was Samsung, whilst they do make some expensive high spec phones, will always be perceived as non-prestige. Sorry, maybe not always, I remember when people laughed at Hondas and Toyotas.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Footflaps – Nokia don’t have to lead, all they have to do is make a good phone. Nokia have their name and brand reputation already. I would say a lot of people who owned Nokias previously loved them and would buy them again.

    Except they’re not buying a Nokia phone anymore, they’re buying a generic Android handset with the Nokia logo stuck on it….

    Nokia will struggle to differentiate themselves in the Android marketplace, the SW is generic as is the HW (Qualcom snapdragon processor, Samsung RAM etc).

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    It’s not that smart phones won’t be around for some time yet, but the market is slowing, simply because everyone has one (well, most in developed worlds). It’s getting more difficult for companies to make money out of them and only those with more money than sense are queuing to buy the latest top of the range devices. Everyone else is happy with what they’ve got until it breaks.

    https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/07/analysts-predict-the-end-of-the-smartphone-boom/

    Question is what next. Wearables are the increasing market. They don’t necessarily need a huge slab sized phone though. One small device that you probably won’t take out of your pocket, which serves as the hub, and the rest you wear. Perhaps we don’t need the traditional phone with LCD as just about everything around us every day will be connected and responds with personal information based on the person interacting.

    Or with enough infrastructure and communication, do away with the power in the device and the wearables are just always connected in a dumb terminal kind of way to the cloud which provides the real power. Another is all our devices connect together with all others around in some massive network. Ripe for gaining self awareness and overthrowing the human race 😉

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    I wasn’t aware Windows phone had got to that point. Shame, as my 640 is a bloody good phone, just horribly let down by a complete lack of support by most major developers who are too lazy to develop for UWP.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Interesting interview with Steve Ballmer on the demise of Microsoft / Nokia mobile…

    Steve Ballmer still does not know what he did wrong with mobile

    sweepy
    Free Member

    When are these Nokia phones avaliable then? My phone is shagged and I can’t find one I like.

    Got a moto g5 but took it back as it had no compass, fingerprint scanner but no sodding compass!

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Why would you want a battery operated compass. It’s a phone.

    petec
    Free Member

    they’re released in finland tomorrow

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    footflaps – Member 
    Interesting interview with Steve Ballmer on the demise of Microsoft / Nokia mobile…
    https://mspoweruser.com/steve-ballmer-still-not-know-wrong-mobile/

    Interesting. The stuff about opening up like Android, problem with that is it’s led to so much platform fragmentation and an immense headache for developers trying to support 100s of different combinations. That’s one area Microsoft were trying to address with UWP and following a more Apple approach to locking things down. Problem there though is far less incentive for people to do their own thing.

    Anyway, one bit about rebooting Windows Mobile, well apparently they may be doing that yet again. New Windows Mobile OS is rumoured, different branch from Windows and abandoning existing mobile, plus a potential device in development. Though they’ve said future of mobile from Microsoft may not be anything like current phones.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    That’s one area Microsoft were trying to address with UWP and following a more Apple approach to locking things down.

    They locking it down solution works best if you have a niche market, one HW vendor and limited product variants. Apple excel at the top end of the market, pretty much cleaning up.

    However, if you want mass market, a product at every tier etc, you need multiple vendors / HW manufactuters and they will want to differentiate themselves with customisation, otherwise they won’t participate.

    sweepy
    Free Member

    Why would you want a battery operated compass. It’s a phone.

    It needs the compass so it knows which way its looking in things like skymap.

Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)

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