god speed to all those who die in pursuit of happiness

and if the person concerned kills others as well as himself in his pursiut??

What happens is if you follow a couple of cars onto a short straight – if you give it a handful in 2nd or 3rd in a second or two you are passing the 2nd car at 100 mph. Overtakes are best done quickly – spend mimimum time in the danger zone alongside a car. If it goes wrong its going to go very wrong but when you have such reserves of grip acceleration and braking its very tempting to do this – and even at 70% speed it still looks terrifying quick to non motorcyclists. Car drivers tend to overestemate bike speeds as well.

All I'm attempting to say some of the motorcycles that fly past at what looks like outrageous speeds are highly skilled experienced and they are riding well withing their capabilites ( if not the law) – but others you will see on bikes are riding outwith their capabilities and either will learn or die – fairly quickly.

Story here:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8181125.Two_bikers_killed_in_head_on_smash/

That's 4 (that I'm aware of) in North Yorkshire over the past 3 days. 🙁

Twice now I've had to dart to one side to avoid the helmet of a speeding motorcyclist whos leaning across the white line into my lane. One came so close I could see the look of fear in his eyes through the visor. I can only imagine what woudl happen if I'd not been going at a rate that allowed me to swerve and avoid contacting his head with my A pillar.

While I'm all for overtaking quickly and flying past people to get out of danger quicker (it really is safer) the point is that many riders seem to forget they need to pull back in and forget they need visibility. Blind crests, blind bends, you name it – they seem to assume cars will move out of the way when they pull back in. They forget that people in cars are not generally used to something filling their braking/thinking distance with bike because they're too impatient to wait for a safe spot to pass.

I'd have a bike, but I know I'd kill myself in a month because it would be too tempting to use the power and acceleration on the road.

Never understood why the police dont target these 'popular' racing routes on sunny days. We have a few in our area and you could pretty much guarentee lots of collars. In the grand scheme of things arent these motorcyclists putting their own and other road users lives at risk? Seems the ideal excuse for targetting them rather than the normal speed camera stuff.

Before anyone says anything i have two brothers who ride big bikes and tour all over the world. Both have been known to let loose from time to time. I would happily see them both lose their licences than end up in a morgue.

In the OP instance my first thought was relief. I am relieved that it was two bikers that were involved and not some inocent family who were trundling along for a picnik. Two bikes colliding means either one lost control badly or they were both using the racing line.

Two bikes colliding means either one lost control badly or they were both using the racing line.

Possibly one perfectly innocent biker got taken out. Both using the racing line? Assuming it's a 2 lane road, one would assume they would be on different lines?

I'd have a bike, but I know I'd kill myself in a month because it would be too tempting to use the power and acceleration on the road.

No you wouldn't.

No offence, but the fact that you've said that means that you are actually more sensible than you think you are and are possibly just afraid of the idea.

When I got a motorbike I got a cr*p commuter and rode in all weathers and on all kinds of roads. Having cycled in the city for years I concentrated on making good observations.

Even now I don't ride a sports bike and have no delusions of possessing superb skills, although I'd like to think that I was now fairly competent.

I do, however, see some very poor (both dodgy and dithery) riding from people on incredibly potent bikes. Having ridden fast bikes I know that I couldn't do one justice.

As with road cycling, being aware of your surroundings and the potential for danger is an important part of self-preservation.

ps. As with a lot of things, I can't understand the lack of 'discretion' from a lot of people on motorbikes. There are times and places for some things and a sunny Sunday afternoon in a very busy national park isn't the place to be hooning about whilst having to dodge old duffers in Rovers.

Whilst driving, I've had to avoid bikers overtaking in the opposite direction on blind corners. They'll just wrongly assume that I'm a non-biking driver who doesn't understand.

TheLittlestHobo – Member

Never understood why the police dont target these 'popular' racing routes on sunny days.

They do.

coffeeking – Member

Twice now I've had to dart to one side to avoid the helmet of a speeding motorcyclist whos leaning across the white line into my lane.

Classic inexperience mistake

I was out on my motorbike yesterday and witnessed some very poor and dangerous riding by other bikers. A lot of the bikers I saw had no understanding of road positioning and visibility.

I went home in the end because I didn't want to be caught up in somebody elses accident.

TandemJeremy ….you are passing the 2nd car at 100 mph.

TandemJeremy ….motorcycles that fly past at what looks like outrageous speeds

So how much in excess of the national speed limit would you class as "outrageous" if 100mph is your recommended safe overtaking speed ???

It's quite possible to move from A to B with astonshing speed on a motorbike, far in excess of what a car can do, easily, safely, and stress free. (And I don't mean outright speed, I mean point to point speed)

I wish you would explain that to the biker I was following home from Glentress yesterday. He was easily doing 100mph along the straights but was bimbling round the corners like a complete novice.

I don't have a problem with bikers on the whole when I see them in my mirrors I generally pull over to the left side of the carraigeway and let them get on with it I know how much faster they are then a car (even a fairly quick one). I also agree its safer for them to overtake as quickly as possible. But the consequence of an error on a motorbike are a lot higher as the OPs post demonstrates

He was easily doing 100mph along the straights but was bimbling round the corners like a complete novice.

He probably was a virtual novice. Most bikers don't do many miles and very few learn the ropes and become comfortable whilst owning a slow bike before buying a banzai monster.

-Any fool can wang the throttle open. Point-and-squirt

Where in Yorkshire was it? Can't find it on the BBC site.

Just under 20 years ago I was out on my road bike with a couple of friends, just finishing a 90 mile Sunday run, heard what sounded like RC plane engines up ahead, realised within a couple of seconds that they were actually motorbike engines hammering along the road we were about to join. They went round the corner just in front and opened it up onto the short straight. Then we heard a thud, then a more interesting noise, then we saw the fireball and small spinning objects trailing flames carrying on, then came the mushroom cloud.
We carried on to find half a Sierra, burning with a man burning sat in the front seat, the hedge was on fire as was the field beyond, there were little pieces of burning car, motorbike(s) and motorbiker(s) spread along the road, the hedge and the field.
There was nothing we could do to help any of them.
It wasn't very pleasant.

theres a certain area on a yorkshire road (Settle-N.Yorks) to be exact, lots of bikers have accidents on this stretch of rd…. you always see fresh flowers tied to the lampost……..wish they,d slow down just a Tad..

Hobo they do we have a Police Hayabusa at the local plodshop for just such weekends…. 😆

TBF I have alot of friend who ride and ride hard……when they roll up out side of the house with the tyres melting I don't even ask……

zokes – Member
It has always made me wonder why the signs say "THINK BIKE". Why not just tell the twunts on bikes to "THINK CAR" once in a while, and there's be a few less issues…

+1.

I'd be interested (as a none biker, none car driver currently) to know what % of motorbike accidents involving car involve excess speed on either part.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/RidingEvents/ridingeventsresults/Riding-skills/2010/march/march2610-riding-skills-How-to-spot-the-Humberside-Hayabusa-NOT-to-be-egged-on-by/

Why do the police need a fast bike to catch these guys? A speed camera taking pictures is more than enough. They only need the speed and reg number.

If a guy loses his bike licence does he lose his car licence as well. If a lot of these bikers are middle aged born again bikers they will have a lot to lose if they are risking their car licence as well.

Havent got a downer on bikers btw, i just would be happier if they werent risking lives getting their buzzes.

Two more here in Devon yesterday http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8700335.stm

Remind me again why I wouldn't ride a motorbike on the road.

Two of my best mates are recent converts to biking but are both incredibly sensible riders. At the weekend they were out enjoying the good weather and came to a junction. They slowed and approached as you would expect, stopping as there was a car coming from the right.

Then some clown on a bike following them swerved around them both at the junction and straight out – powering away to narrowly avoid the oncoming car.

TandemJeremy ….you are passing the 2nd car at 100 mph.

TandemJeremy ….motorcycles that fly past at what looks like outrageous speeds

So how much in excess of the national speed limit would you class as "outrageous" if 100mph is your recommended safe overtaking speed ???

I much prefer biker (or fast cars for that matter) to get past me as quickly as possible. Its safer for everyone involved. its all about time exposed to danger.

Imagine a biker passing two cars travelling a 50 mph say he accelerates to an "acceptable" speed of 70 mph (lets call his average speed during the manouver 60mph) this gives him a speed delta of 10mph over the slower traffic if he needs 50m (of relative distance) to complete the overtake that will take him just over 11 seconds.

If the biker accelerates to 100mph (assume an average of 85mph during the manouver) he now has a speed delta of 35mph he can now complete the same overtake in a little under 4 seconds

missingfrontallobe

I'd be interested (as a none biker, none car driver currently) to know what % of motorbike accidents involving car involve excess speed on either part.

My understanding is that typically the crashes are at around the speed limit – not usually excessively fast. Its typically a middleaged man inexperienced on motorcycles with no other vehicle involved on a bend – too fast for the combination of the bend and the skill not above the legal limit. The tragedy is that with better skills many could be avoided. The sort of corner you go round at 45 mph cruising in a car and can be taken on a bike at 60+ easily they cock it up at 55mph and chuck it thru a hedge. Nearly did it myself once.

If a guy loses his bike licence does he lose his car licence as well

yes. It's one licence

We unfortunately had a fatality on the Isle Of Man yesterday and the TT races don't even start until next weekend 🙁

Isle Of Man Today

Once the TT starts there are usually quite a few crashes over the 2 weeks 🙁

It's ever so slightly mad 😯

Ohh, and recently (as I posted on here) I had a bike overtake me going up a hill with unbroken white lines. The brow is unsighted and has a sharp left.

Did I tell you he was wheelie-ing as he did this?

Then a car came 'round the bend so he had to drop it quickly and swerve in right in front of my car.

(That is just the latest idiocy I have witnessed, there have been plenty more on this particular stretch of road (Skipton Road out of Harrogate).

If the biker accelerates to 100mph (assume an average of 85mph during the manouver) he now has a speed delta of 35mph he can now complete the same overtake in a little under 4 seconds

😕

What was is it someone once said to me 'on every ride you have a near-miss'.

I stopped after my D.A. Would definitely ride off road though 😀

I think the thing that makes a lot of people hate bikers is the way they pass. Even fast cars will generally come and sit behind you, then pass. The majority of bikes are quick enough that they come up behind you rather faster than you're going, and sail straight by.

If you're not right on top of your observation, they're passing you before you've even seen them in your mirrors.

That said, I've had people not notice me in the car when I've been sat behind them and pulled out to overtake…

And someone needs to tell these idiots that the space in the middle of the road separating the two carriageways isn't a private space just for bikers to overtake even when there are cars travelling in both directions.

What was is it someone once said to me 'on every ride you have a near-miss'.

I certainly don't. That shouldn't be typical of someone who wants to survive.

I stopped after my D.A.

Stopped after the test or after deciding it wasn't for you?

I'm slowly losing my respect for motorbikers in general – not that they probably care….

Everytime it gets to some warm weather the roads are invaded by middle aged Power Rangers, whizzing about with their race cans & iridium visors who generally seem to ride as if the laws of the road don't apply to them.

And yes, there are a LOT of responsible bikers out there. But there are many bikers who seem to think that the 'awesome' power of their machines will get them out of any trouble they get themselves into by overtaking on blind corners/hills/near blind dips in the road etc.

I've also had many occasions where I've had to swerve out of the way as a Power Ranger helmet has scythed round the wrong side of the road on a country lane with the bike tyres positioned almost on the centre line of the road, and the rider almost completely on the wrong side.

TJ, do you think you might be able to stop the patronising "non-motorcylists couldn't possibly understand" line??
I'm a non-motorcylist, but have been on the back of many bikes, in many different road environments. I believe I have an understanding of the potential extra view down the road afforded by the higher eyeline of a seated rider, as well as the vastly greater acceleration potential of a motorbike. I can still see when someone's riding like a **** though….

Oh, and your mention of 100mph overtakes seems to contrast greatly with your unwavering stance a while back on the heinous crime of undertaking…

TheLittlestHobo – Member

Why do the police need a fast bike to catch these guys? A speed camera taking pictures is more than enough. They only need the speed and reg number.

Education. Its often a unmarked bike, You see one being ridden slowly – you pass it and it follows you – depending on how you ride you get pulled over and he shows you a video of your ride and you get what you deserve – from an bollocking to a go straight to jail card

Havent got a downer on bikers btw, i just would be happier if they werent risking lives getting their buzzes.

Part of the reason I got back into MTBs. Hitting 30+ on an MTB is as thrilling as 100+ on a motorcycle.

I've also had many occasions where I've had to swerve out of the way as a Power Ranger helmet has scythed round the wrong side of the road on a country lane with the bike tyres positioned almost on the centre line of the road, and the rider almost completely on the wrong side.

Not that many people ride like that, but the ones that do give a bad impression.

Having your head in the way of oncoming traffic can never be a good idea.

I do ride a bike and still feel uneasy about people riding like that. I make 'reasonable progress', but aim to ride without causing other vehicles to accommodate me. Busy places with poor visibility are not the places to do daft things.

Gave up riding motorbikes 15 years ago and since then i've become very "lazy" driving in my car.By that i mean that you were always on the look out for potential hazards.Cow crap on the road,gravel,tractors,ect.But when your in the car listening to the radio,the wife and kids screeming at each other i bimble along and do not pick up on the potential hazards.

I'm not sure an off-road trail requires quite the same level of forward planning and understanding of road conditions personally!

Only real difference is that there often isn't much coming the otherway that can kill you – and maybe you're not riding fast enough 😉

As for speed, unless you've ridden a fast bike (or driven an F1 or equivilent car) you've no concept of the acceleration potential of them – my Kawasaki would do 0-100mph in 5 secs, on to 130mph in under 10 secs and really didn't stop accelerating until the redline (approx 175mph).

Bikes are also narrow, so bends are faster and as you sit higher you've a better view of the road.

But its funny that I now find 30mph downhill on my mtb far, far more exhilarating.

As for speed, unless you've ridden a fast bike (or driven an F1 or equivilent car) you've no concept of the acceleration potential of them

The word phenomenal is apt, although the words "Whooooooooooaaaah!!! ****" were the ones that came out of my mouth when gave a mate's Fireblade some beans in 2nd gear as a newly-passed rider.

Downhill on an MTB at 30mph is exhilarating, Motos and mtbs complement each other.

Stopped after the test or after deciding it wasn't for you?

(Like everyone) I was hoping I'd be a natural on a motorbike. Far from it. Not the gears etc, the problem was I didn't have a sixth sense, I missed certain things.

In a car, I've always had a 'sixth sense'. Sounds wierd but you second-guess other drivers, know what to expect from the unexpected and a slide is never a drama, just interesting.

I have none of this on a bike.

stumpy01 – Member

are invaded by middle aged Power Rangers, whizzing about with their race cans & iridium visors who generally seem to ride as if the laws of the road don't apply to them.

dickheads the lot of 'em – they are the ones who crash

TJ, do you think you might be able to stop the patronising "non-motorcylists couldn't possibly understand" line??

Sorry – not intended to be patronising. Just trying to say that some of those fast riders are actually pretty safe. Some are not. Car drivers often find difficulty distinguishing which are which.

I was not condoning or recommending a 100 mph overtake – again trying to explain just how easy it is to do. Its only the midrange in third FFS! Thats why the aforementioned power rangers fly past you at stupido speeds.

My last fastish bike was a BMW – I prefered to make rapid but unobtrusive progress. There is a time and a place for speeding and don't bleat if you get caught