We seem to be going round in circles with this one so in summary.
The Scottish government have acted in good faith, The Americans want ther whipping boys (Macaskill and Fraser). The Scottish government do not want to be part of Americas inquiry/kangaroo court. So the Scottish government have told them to poke it.
Meanwhile Dave is away acting like a gimp (and in case I am accused of being anti Tory (which I am anyway)Thatcher would not have acted like that)
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OMG: Someone has the balls to stick the Vs up at the yanks....
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Posted 1 year ago #
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the scotland act which set up the parliament can only be altered by agreement with both parliaments - the westminster parlaiment on its own has no power over devolved matters at all
That's simply not true, sorry. Westminster is sovereign and can't bind itself e.g. not to rescind the Scotland Act except without the agreement of the Scottish Parliament.
http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/eucon/fcosov.html
Pre devolution it would have been the Scottish secretary not the home secretary...Now the home secretary could have zero imput into a decision as he is not a part of the scottish judiciary
I do apologise for mistaking the powers of the (historic) Home Secretary for the (historic?) Scottish Secretary - either way, both British ministers appointed by the PM.None of the Home Secretary, the (old) Scottish Secretary and the (current) Justice Secretary are part of the Scottish judiciary. Tut, tut, Jeremy - they are all part of the Scottish executive (or as the SNP expensively rebranded it, the Scottish Government Riaghaltas na h-Alba). This is part of the reason why the discussion of the Scottish legal system is a complete irrelevance - (members of) the Senate is not questioning whether the power to free prisoners on compassionate grounds in the first place should have existed in the first place, it is questioning whether the power was correctly exercised in the case of Ally McGrachy, which is a different matter entirely.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I am aware of the treatment of alleged terrorists currently and internment but I thought that was UK law in both cases and not Scottish law.
Pshaw - now you're on thin ice.Northern Irish law applies in Northern Ireland and while (delegated) Home Rule for NI was suspended, who legislated? Westminster! And who sent MPs to Westminster to prop up the government in the Labour years? Scotland! And who sent red-cheeked proddy troops to Ulster throughout? Scotland! And who paid taxes to support the UK government in NI thoughout? Scotland! You can't devolve all responsibility for all UK actions in NI/North of Ireland to the English!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who is Mel Gibson?
He's an American who moved to Australia so his brother wouldn't get drafted into the Vietnam War, and later went on to make a number of movies which are militaristic pish (Gallipoli, The Patriot, We Were Soldiers, Braveheart, Air America etc). He also starred in What Women Want and later went on to be investigated for domestic violence.
Well I never, have a degree in media studies.
Posted 1 year ago # -
In fact all of you are awarded Universal Law Degrees as Barrack Room Lawyers (except those of you that are actually qualified)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I just can't get that compassionate about someone who is thought to have murdered a plane load of people.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I just can't get that compassionate about someone who is thought to have murdered a plane load of people.
Look, buddy, if you're going to insult decorated members of the US military, I'm going to have to ask you to step outside...Posted 1 year ago # -
I just can't get that compassionate about someone who is thought to have murdered a plane load of people.
It is a part of Scots law. Terminally ill prisoners are released. 31 applications in the past decade, and the 24 (including Al) where the medical evidence checked out were all released.
The difference between justice and vengeance is lost on some.
Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind and all that.But whether you agree with the release or not doesn't really matter. Plenty of Scots don't.
The point is that we shouldn't be expected to scurry over to the States to explain our actions like naughty schoolboys in front of the headmaster, particularly when there is no evidence that they have done anything wrong (regardless of how upsetting the Americans find it).
Incidentally, how many senior American politicians did we summon for the recent Iraq Inquiry? Surely their evidence would have been very useful?
Do you think Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have come running if we demanded it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Konabunny - have a read of the scotland act. Its very clear - the provisions of the scotland act that set up the Holyrood parliament cannot be altered without the consent of both parliaments.
the UK parliament has no jurisdiction over devolved matters and cannot take such jurisdiction without the consent of holyrood.
the 1971 piece you post is well out of datePosted 1 year ago # -
enfht - Member
"I applaud you jocks for not folding under yanky pressure but the fact still stands that the "deal" resulting in a hero's welcome to that murdering bastard is highly regrettable and embarrassing for a nation trying to show it can stand on it's own two feet."
Ah yes, opinions presented as facts, good show. Embarassing? Personally I think it's something to be proud of and one of the finest moments of Scottish politics.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” The point is not that (possible) murderers receive compassion. It is that good people give it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Konabunny - have a read of the scotland act. Its very clear - the provisions of the scotland act that set up the Holyrood parliament cannot be altered without the consent of both parliaments.
Where specifically does it say that?the 1971 piece you post is well out of date
Says who?
Any provision of the Scotland Act that attempted to legislate that would be ultra vires of the Parliament. This has been a principle of constitutional law since Dicey's time at least. The Scotland Act is a simple Westminster act and could be repealed in the same way.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Too drunk and tired to argue it Konabunny. Its tedious reading the act.
the UK parliament gave away a piece of sovereignty - as it has done on may occasions ( maastrivcht treaty, ending of colonial rule etc). It cannot unilaterally reclaim that sovereignty
Holyrood is not subordinate to Westminster as yo seem to think. Holyrood has the power to do things that the UK government is against. The UK government has no right to interfere in devolved matters.
W
Posted 1 year ago # -
Why do we always go through this?
And why is one englishman arguing about scotland with another englishman?Posted 1 year ago # -
GrahamS - Member
Do you still have that Wallace statue that bears
a uncanny resemblance to Mel Gibson?The one at the Wallace Monument? Removed in 2008 after being repeatedly vandalised by people of excellent taste.
I know where it is now btw
Posted 1 year ago # -
the cheesy left are once again able to wave their little rattles at their favourite hate-object...
Bored of baiting christians and looking for a new target?
You can't devolve all responsibility for all UK actions in NI/North of Ireland to the English!
I know I am only saying that it was not the scotish legal system that was responsible. I accept your broader point re culpability of elected scotish representatives it is correct as is mineI am aware of the treatment of alleged terrorists currently and internment but I thought that was UK law in both cases and not Scottish law
Posted 1 year ago # -
If the average jock is too proud/stupid to understand
I'm an "average jock" (who has generally speaking no time at all for the SNP), however what I do understand is that the Scottish government released a terminally sick man (who may not even have been guilty) on compassionate grounds. I'm very proud to be part of a country that behaved in that way.
Posted 1 year ago # -
yer 'arrogance' an 'ignorance' is well known throughout the world,
Ye kinda liked by the Welsh, Disliked by the Scots, F'ing detested by the Irish, Spat upon by the French!
S'pose above is irrelevant when ye read first sentence.Posted 1 year ago # -
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steffybhoy - Memberyer 'arrogance' an 'ignorance' is well known throughout the world,
Ye kinda liked by the Welsh, Disliked by the Scots, F'ing detested by the Irish, Spat upon by the French!
S'pose above is irrelevant when ye read first sentence.
Posted 48 seconds ago # Report-Post
Would somebody be so kind as to translate this?
It appears to be loosely based on the beautiful English language, but as filtered through the tiny fortified wine addled mind of an illegitimate plastic paddy with an exceptionally weak grasp of history.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Would somebody be so kind as to translate this?
It appears to be loosely based on the beautiful English language, but as filtered through the tiny fortified wine addled mind of an illegitimate plastic paddy with an exceptionally weak grasp of history.
The sooner we get independence from England, the better. And I live on the Isle of Wight.
Posted 1 year ago # -
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StefMcDef - MemberThe sooner we get independence from England, the better. And I live on the Isle of Wight.
Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post
That's what I love about Scots nationalists. They love Scotland, but choose to live as far away from the place as possible!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm an "average jock" (who has generally speaking no time at all for the SNP), however what I do understand is that the Scottish government released a terminally sick man (who may not even have been guilty) on compassionate grounds. I'm very proud to be part of a country that behaved in that way.
I hear what you say, though for me it depends on the individual involved. If we were talking about a person who repeatedly stated that he was proud of what he'd done, felt no remorse and was glad that so many people had died, then even being terminally ill, releasing him would not be an act of compassion, but a best an act of bureaucracy and at worse an act of stupidity.
Of course in this case we're not talking about such a gentleman, it's fairly probable that he may not be even guilty of the act that he's been imprisoned for, in which case any politically expedient method of releasing him was to be welcomed.Posted 1 year ago # -
The sooner we get independence from England, the better. And I live on the Isle of Wight.
Freedom for Tooting!Posted 1 year ago # -
Jack Straw has also refused to attend. Does that make him an ignorant jock too?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Jack Straw has also refused to attend. Does that make him an ignorant jock too?
He should be so lucky!Posted 1 year ago #
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