I know this is an old topic and one which has probably been covered many times, i am guessing the answer will be to strictly control diet and that exercise doesn’t really have too much influence….but

I commute to work by bike, cycling between 36-56 miles a day monday to friday, and then often a 30 mile ride on either saturday or sunday. Physically this can be tough, but I wear a heart rate monitor and measure my “fatigue”, this comprises either a 9 mile ride in morning from wife’s work to mine, then 27 miles home, or two days a week i have to ride the 27 miles both ways.

If i’m feeling tired, i keep my heart rate in Zone 2 and “spin” putting as little effort through my legs as possible, when i’m feeling good, i will incorporate intervals into the ride or sprint the small climbs on the route.

My issue is simply that i am a “unit”, a bit of a barn door, i spent nearly 20 years playing rugby as a prop-forward and only bought a hardtail MTB originally as i looked at it and thought it wouldn’t crumple under my 17 1/2 stone.

The trouble is, i am not unfit, i have ridden 310 miles in a day and completed rides like the Dragon Devil at 189 miles and 4500m climbing. With all this riding the weight at the start dropped off really quickly but i currently sit at just over 16 stone (101 kg) and cannot shift the last 1 – 1/2 stone that i seem to carry round my middle, it would be nice to one day don my lycra and not feel like i have to hold my breath in as i walk into work and to have that extra “uumphh” up a few of the hills and actually feel like a cyclist as opposed to a spandex clad Michelin man..

I have tried using apps like My Fitness Pal, which suggests an active man of my weight has a base calorie need a day of about 2900 calories, in addition my heart monitor suggests i burn about 2000 -2400 calories a day, so strictly the maths says i should be consuming over 5000 calories a day. I don’t, i probably eat about 2500 – 2800 calories a day which should suggest their is a large deficit?

If i restrict diet any more, then my legs simply die on me on the ride home, i thought perhaps i was restricting diet to much and that my body was in “starvation mode” and retaining the weight.

Any ideas or advice……….?

Weight loss is all down to calories in and calories out so either you’re eating more calories than you think or burning less than you think. Sounds like you’re also double counting the calories burned if you’re including everything you’re doing in a day.

I’m in the losing weight/getting fitter process and started out at a similar weight to you – and my target calories to eat each day is about 1750 (targeting losing about 1lb per week). I’ll eat more than that if I do exercise but only log calories burning from runs or cycle rides and even then wouldn’t include all of those calories in what I target that day.

Sadly no advice, but I will be watching this thread with interest.

I do similar mileage (20 miles each way 5 days a week plus occasional saturdays) and have been stuck at just under 13 stone for a year.

The best results I’ve had previously is sacking off the riding almost completely and just doing short intense gym sessions 3 days a week, with HIIT cardio the other 2 and a ride at the weekend. Along with restricting calories massively.

Doing this I got down to 11 1/2 stone, but I like to ride my bike so I’m going to have to live with it I think. I’m trying to clean up my diet too which will help, I eat too much crap at the moment.

First up, why that weight? Most people (and I understand you may be an exception here) when it’s broken down don’t care about weight, they want to look a certain way. If that is you, throw away the scales, take a pic of you in your undies and use that as a start point for improvement.

There is a view that cardio work is not as good for weight loss as more strength based work. You long, steady efforts may well be fine for getting bike fit but not great for weight loss. Clearly you’re putting the miles in so why not swap some bike efforts for strength or HIIT based sessions. Weighted squats until failure are good, leg presses, anything that uses and abuses the biggest muscle groups in your body, they use calories to repair, the bigger the muscle damage, the bigger the repair job. If you want to keep it bike based, 20 or 30 minute HIIT sessions (I do them on a turbo but you can do them on the road) are quite good. But whatever it is, do it hard and do it until it hurts/you throw up/you can’t move any more.

Also look at your diet. Not from a calories perspective but from what is providing them. Try eating little and often, smaller meals every 3 hours as opposed to big ones every 6 or 7. Try cutting out carbs after 5pm and generally cleaning up the diet, so no processed food, more wholegrains, that kind of thing.

If i restrict diet any more, then my legs simply die on me on the ride home,

Have you tried reducing your carb intake?

Sounds counter intuitive I know but it worked for me.

Secret eating. 😉

if you are fit and healthy, and most of all, active, and looking at the riding you do, you must be, well why worry about losing the weight.

just ride, enjoy and repeat.

ps, and 17 stone isnt all that big realy

carb free diet for two weeks. Boom

Weight loss is all down to calories in and calories out so either you’re eating more calories than you think or burning less than you think. Sounds like you’re also double counting the calories burned if you’re including everything you’re doing in a day.

I’m pretty sure that my bmr is around 1,000 calories so your calorie counting does seem a bit off.
Weight is unlikely to drop as muscle grows/is maintained.
If the calories are coming form crap/carbs, you’ll have problems shifting the weight. I’m pretty sure that Froomedog is on a strict diet even though he’s burning up 9,000 calories a day (or whatever it is) and I bet he’s not shovelling any old calories in as part of the calories in/calories out regime.

Moved over to a fitness band to try and capture my full day, exercise and the rest as one and it’s probably more accurate than adding exercise to a fixed amount. Food matches my activity in general and my weight is stable, vary one way or the other and a couple of kg’s come and go. I’d need to cut a lot out or really up the exercise to make a bigger difference. Also look at the intensity if your doing most at Base then it may not be doing enough.

if you want to lose fat, you should be looking to eat a high fat, high protein diet. look at eating good oils and fats, good quality meat, and lots of fresh veg.

Ditch the processed carbs – bread, pasta and the obvious refined sugars – cakes, biscuits, sweets etc. You could ditch rice, oats and legumes too, but I wouldn’t recommend it, the dip in energy would be massive, until your body adjusted.

I spent a lot of time looking at the primal / ketosis way of doing things, but decided it wasn’t for me, but have adapted that to use the things that make most sense – lifting heavy weights, eating well, cut carbs, increased healthy fats…

he best results I’ve had previously is sacking off the riding almost completely and just doing short intense gym sessions 3 days a week, with HIIT cardio the other 2 and a ride at the weekend. Along with restricting calories massively.

Lots of studies show this improves insulin resistance (insulin is the hormone responsible for fat storage)

1. Its all power to weight ratio
2. make small long term changes to diet, cut all alcohol, no fry, increase veg, balance protein and carb
3. Your doing the same mileage/effort each week. This isn’t any training its junk miles.
4. Mix up training, include hill work, intervals, speed and vary distance and effort to increase power, turbo in winter

<I commute to work by bike, cycling between 36-56 miles a day monday to friday, and then often a 30 mile ride on either saturday or sunday>

Its just mileage little training, no structure no rest. You get fitter when your body recovers. Body is simply bored its adapted to your life style.

This is what always gets posted in MyFitnessPal when someone asks the same question:

Oh bottom line, managing weight is 99% what you put in your mouth and the amount. A good balanced diet with a structured training regime will work.

The ‘quick fixs’ are snake oil

Try HIIT, but not on the bike.

What’s your percentage body fat? A lot of your weight could actually be muscle

@trickydisco – is that a good or bad thing? I’m out of the loop at the mo.

@trickydisco – is that a good or bad thing? I’m out of the loop at the mo.

its a very good thing

25 Ways to Improve Your Insulin Sensitivity

The ‘quick fixs’ are snake oil

There was a Facebook meme along the lines that if there was a magic pill that sorted weight let you eat what you wanted and all that your gp wouldn’t be pissed off…

I’m very much just in the camp of eat what you enjoy, lifes too short to do all these silly things. At the end of the day burn more calories than you take in.

I would be doing different exercise to just cycling too. I think it becomes easy to get in to habits if you just do one form of exercise day in day out.

Take up running too or some other exercise that works the upper body, not just the legs.

I wouldn’t get so caught up in the calorie counting – it has been proven time and time again that it is the best unit of measure available at the moment but does not consider things like nutrient density. 300cals of sugar is not the same as 300cals of meat / vegetables / nuts. I’d be really interested to see the daily macro splits My Fitness Pal is displaying.

Training wise think of your previous pre season rugby stuff. I’d look at a basic 5×5 program for a start with big movements that will increase your metabolic rate. The above is assuming you know your way around a squat or deadlift. Personally I would guess that you are under eating in regards to meat and veg, I aim for 250g of meat as a very rough rule of thumb three times per day and I do a LOT less cardio.

I have tried using apps like My Fitness Pal, which suggests an active man of my weight has a base calorie need a day of about 2900 calories, in addition my heart monitor suggests i burn about 2000 -2400 calories a day, so strictly the maths says i should be consuming over 5000 calories a day. I don’t, I probably eat about 2500 – 2800 calories a day which should suggest their is a large deficit?

I think you and I may be in a similar boat – I’m, by every measure my Doctor cares to make, very fit – resting heart rate is mid-50’s, bloody pressure is perfect, my recovery rate excellent (compared to average people like me, not athletes etc). but I’m over-weight, have been for a long time – 15-20 years probably – and I’ve tried everything[/i] reduced carbs, medication, lots of exorcize, pills etc etc etc – it’s all snake oil, there are no short cuts, no magic tricks, there’s a whole industry based around these smoke and mirrors bullshit tricks – but the science doesn’t back it up.

IMHO Calories in v Calories out works – yes the acai berry, no carbs, avocado bothering pseudo scientists will tell you “calories don’t tell you the whole picture” no, they don’t but as a rule of thumb it’s a perfectly good yard stick.

I’d be very sceptical of HRMs too, I wore a Fitbit HR for 3 months, oh what I wonderful time, 18st (as I was then) walk to the shops, bam – here’s 300 extra calories, have a cake. After 12 months of following MyFitnessPal to the letter and losing a steady amount of weight each week I actually gained weight, even when half of the time the Fitbit app said I was under eating 3000Kcals a day! They’re no better than those treadmills in the gym that say you’re burning 100Kcals a hour plodding along .

Anyway since, I binned the Fitbit I’ve lost another 12Kgs in 5 months, a lower rate than ‘magic diets’ promise, but I’m happy with it – I’ll be under 100Kgs soon.

I’m on 1830Kcals a day and with a bit of work to find things you like and avoiding foods that are too high in calories and don’t keep you going for long (sweets and chocolate) – I allow 300-350 more for a decent riding day.

Thanks for all the above all.

To respond to some of the points, i don’t actually care about what weight i am as a figure, i’ve spent all my life as a prop-forward so knew a modelling career was out. I’d like to lose the remaining stone for a few reasons, to be a better cyclist and because i bought two really expensive jerseys that currently are a bit “restrictive”.

With regards to the commuting being junk miles, i am aware of this, my trouble is i live in rural Norfolk and decided last year to get rid of my car as i can actually cycle to work as quick as it is to drive (due to the bottle necks in rural A47 here) and having been made redundant a third time in five years, it made economic sense.

i do try to mix up the commute as much as possible, some days if tired i will try to ride in Zone 2 whole way, and i won’t fuel the ride, some days top end Zone 3 the whole way, other days i will ride mostly in Zone 2, but will attack each climb (not many here in Norfolk!) or sprint between lights so heart is at top end Zone 4/5 for a good 20 minutes of the ride in all.

With regards to goals, next year i would really like to do London- Edinburgh- London and maybe the Trans Continental, so the commute has really upped my base fitness, but most of all has given me a mental toughness, forcing myself up at 5am each day in whatever the weather.

Diet wise, i think that i eat a lot, but 90% of it is pretty good, breakfast is usually either porridge or two slices of wholemeal toast with peanut butter. if i rode 9 miles in to work, nothing when i get there, if i rode 28 miles in at a decent lick, then a Rego Recovery shake (as i know i’ll be riding 28 miles home again). Mid-morning, 2 pieces of fruit. Lunch is usually left over pasta/curry from evening meals), afternoon an hour before i rode home i have a homemade flapjack, then home to a homemade curry/ pasta or similar in which i put a lot of veg and the rice or pasta is always brown rice or wholewheat pasta. No energy products or drinks used.

Physically i know i will never be a small person, i’ve thighs bigger than Hoy, it is more about wanting to get up that next hill a bit faster or just generally feeling better.

Weight loss is all down to calories in and calories out

Yes and no. It’s actually down to what your body does with what you eat, and what your body does when you do exercise. Those things vary a lot.

Fat cells produce a hormone that inhibits the creation of fat (lipogenesis). What that means is that when you lose fat, that hormone decreases so lipogenesis goes up. Which is why we tend towards a steady state. In general different people respond to hormones differently so some people hold on to fat differently.

If you don’t eat enough, some people will readily lose fat, and some will just slow down to maintain their fat stocks. In my experience you can become much more efficient at sub-threshold intensities though which is great for endurance.

Sometimes eating more can enable weight loss – if it enables you to train/ride more and expend more calories. In terms of weight loss, you want your body to be LESS efficient so it uses more energy to do what you do with it.

Reading your diet, you might benefit from a low GI/iDave style diet, at least in the short term – nothing to lose from trying it.

My issue is simply that i am a “unit”, a bit of a barn door, i spent nearly 20 years playing rugby as a prop-forward and only bought a hardtail MTB originally as i looked at it and thought it wouldn’t crumple under my 17 1/2 stone.

Love this ! Certainly your sense of humour is in fine settle. Great username too 🙂

Question 1 how much alcohol and specifically beer do you drink ? Beer is terrible for calories and weight going tothe gut, does with me. Now I spent a few years arguing this was not the case with my wife but when we started spending more time in France and hence drinking less beer (uk pub always a couple of pints, French bar either 1 beer or 1 glass of wine) I lost a bit of weight fairly quickly. Mate who got super fit at 50+ drinks much less and focuses on vodka/gin and tonic, one glass of wine with a dinner out or a rare beer at a rugby match

Question 2 (as above) portion control. Its one of my weaknesses, everything I have a lage portion, weighed my cereal the other day (healthy grains, no sugar, semi-skimmed milk) and it was close to 3 times the box recommended portion and 1000 calories. Pasta a weakness too, I’ll eat two bowl fulls – my seconds are same size as firsts 🙁 I don’t eat too badly I just eat too much.

To loose weight you have to eat less / better and move more. You are already moving a lot so increasing that should not be your focus (you seem to be managing and monitoring that very well). So diet, try portion control, less carbs (pasta, rice, spuds) and (hard for me) cut down the drinking – how about 1 night a week or even go dry for a month an see what diference that makes.

On portion control etc I find buying less helps. Ditch the trolley and shop with a basket and you suddenly find a healthier option.

Having re-read your last post.

Peanut Butter is terrible, ok as a treat perhaps but try and cut that out. How think are you putting it on, weigh it out,meg bread first then add peanut butter and reweigh. Digital scales are excellent.

Riding, you need to spend at least 20 mins continually in the “aerobic” zone. If you can download some data and post it here folks can comment. Maybe you are not working that hard.

Good luck

I’d be really interested to see the daily macro splits My Fitness Pal is displaying.

yep, me too, I imagine 60 or 70 % carbs, from the average day above

Thanks again for all the advice.

I will admit portion control may not be the best, especially evening meal as often i am really hungry. I do make sure that i eat a lot of fruit/veg and that my protein intake is about 25-30% of intake.

As above, if you do eat large portions it can be a shock to find out how much you are actually consuming. As an aside, my 6 year old daughter is Type 1 diabetic and we have some great hi-tech scales that give a complete breakdown of the calories/carbs/protein/fats of a food you place on them.

Lunch is usually left over pasta/curry from evening meals)…..then home to a homemade curry/ pasta or similar in which i put a lot of veg and the rice or pasta is always brown rice or wholewheat pasta.

I’m reading between the lines here. You say you often have leftovers for lunch, how much are are you making for your dinner? Portion control, especially on carbs might be helpful. Weigh pasta and measure rice with a cup or similar, don’t just guess.
My wife is Type 1 diabetic and hence we weigh/measure all carbs. We have 100g dry pasta or 1/2 cup measure of rice per person.

EDIT: Had left this unposted for a while, hence the overlap on content!

I had a similar problem to you – hovering at around 69kg (down from 76kg) and couldn’t shift any more despite some pretty intense spinning sessions at the gym (full hour in peak heart rate).

I changed my regime to alternate between (or add to) the spin sessions and HIIT and within weeks I was dropping weight consistently and now am down to around 65kg.

This is what always gets posted in MyFitnessPal when someone asks the same question:

devil’s advocate: a bunch of obsessive-compulsives regurgitating their dogma on command, both to reinforce their own group delusion & ensnare new acolytes. Exactly what you’d get at a religious cult meeting I’d imagine 😈

devil’s advocate: a bunch of obsessive-compulsives regurgitating their dogma on command, both to reinforce their own group delusion & ensnare new acolytes. Exactly what you’d get at a religious cult meeting I’d imagine

On MyFitnessPal it’s more a response to various questions about why their cult fitness programme or diet (Keto/Atkins etc.) isn’t working.

With a scientific background it seems logical to me that weight loss gain is down to how much fuel you take in compared to how much you expend. Ok, it’s not 100% the answer (and there is a big difference between weight loss and fitness) but I suspect it’s the answer 99.9% of the time i.e. most people are eating more calories than they think they are, while burning less calories than they think.

Anyway in my case the combination or tracking what calories I take in and increasing my level of exercise is having a positive impact – certainly more so when I tried to rely on just increasing my exercise level.

Make your ride into work fasted.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn20150818-All-Cycling-Fasted-Morning-Rides-0

I did that on Sunday – huge Thai meal on Saturday night with too much beer & wine.

Did a 38 mile road ride on Sunday morning with no food as I felt guilty about eating so much. Absolutely died on my arse at about 20 miles.

😆

😳

With a scientific background it seems logical to me that weight loss gain is down to how much fuel you take in compared to how much you expend.

It only seems logical until you start really reading up on what happens to what you eat, and what happens when you exercise.

I suspect it’s the answer 99.9% of the time

Maybe for the general population, but for already fit cyclists who are too heavy, that breaks down as bodies have adapted to lots of things.

Maybe for the general population, but for already fit cyclists who are too heavy, that breaks down as bodies have adapted to lots of things.

Or in other words they’re not burning as many calories as they think or that their devices are reporting…

Lots of people think they’re an exception – until they work out how many calories they’ve been eating, east less – then start losing weight.

Lunch is usually left over pasta/curry from evening meals)…..then home to a homemade curry/ pasta or similar in which i put a lot of veg and the rice or pasta is always brown rice or wholewheat pasta.

Less rice and pasta, much less. Veg curry is delicious without any rice. FWiW a microwave chicken curry has the roughly same number of calories as a microwave pilau tice. Have a look at the box. Quite illuminating.

More curry / pasta for lunch 😐

There you go OP, that!s your plan A – less of that

Or in other words they’re not burning as many calories as they think or that their devices are reporting…

Lots of people think they’re an exception – until they work out how many calories they’ve been eating, east less – then start losing weight.

Got to agree with this. Got a friend who pretty much proves it.
He’s a fit/regular cyclist, has done LEJOG etc.
If he doesn’t log what he eats he ends up at 90kg, as soon as he starts writing it all down it starts dropping back towards a more normal 75kg.

Regardless of adaptions your body may or may not have made, you cant magic energy from no-where. If you put in less than you take out it has to come from a reduction in body mass.

In reply to the above. I am very conscious of devices confirming calories burnt, according to my Garmin after 28 mile ride home, often it will say i’ve burnt about 1800 calories! I have a Polar HR monitor watch which gives a calorie count and also logs my fatigue, this will often give a much lower figure, on average about 900 – 1150 calories for the 90 minute, 28 mile ride home.

I appreciate that portion control may be better, but adding it all up and using My Fitness Pal purely to log food/ calories consumed I am still in deficit each day according to the gizmos by about 1200 calories a day, whilst i presume this may well be an overestimation and these devices aren’t hugely accurate, i must have a deficit each day.

It seems to be getting over this plateau where my body just seems to have adapted to the daily workload.