I have never owned a full sus, never really felt the need but specialized new bikes look great. Got me thinking who has the oldest design is it specialized with the FSR thing/ or kona?

FS is nearly as old as bicycles, the transport museum in glasgow has a nice example

edit: that site's not liking hotlinks

try

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/pics/docs/00/00/13/74/large/cooper.jpg?v=1Y

edit again: now it likes them again

Is it Mankind with such designs as arms and legs?

skid i'm getting a error 403. Anyway what i meant was, who has stuck with there system the longest. Who really believes there system is best. example turner recently changed from something to DW link, so was there old system that good. where as i believe spesh have had there system for over a decade.

spesh have had there system for over a decade.

Rather longer than that!

Other obvious candidates with over a decade are Orange and Santa Cruz (Heckler/Superlight) with single pivots.

but SC now use vpp for some of there bikes and orange have a mix and match going at the moment, have specialized always soley used the fsr system?

nope
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=21300

Moulton. Been using the same design since 1960, the original patent drawings are dated 1959. Kona started of with a system that never worked properly on their Sex 1 and 2 bikes, then had Turner build their race bikes, around '94ish, which is what they copied and stuck with ever since. Specialised started with a system using a vertical damper behind the seat clamp. Turner started doing four-bars in '94, and the Horst Link dates from around that time. Specialized just bought Horst's patent then charged everyone who'd been involved with it a fee to carry on using it, including Nicolai, who'd helped develop the original concept. Specialized aren't innovative, they just let someone else do the work, buy the concept and rip off everyone else. [edit] Dave Turner was forced to stop using his original design because of continual litigation from Ellsworth bikes over some supposed design infringement, not because the DW Link is better. [/edit]

ha kimbers that looks like a orange alpine. xipe i'm not bothered about innovation just the longest in use suspension system. got a feeling the new enduro is going to be cleaning up on the review front, shame its so expensive.

Specialized just bought Horst's patent then charged everyone who'd been involved with it a fee to carry on using it, including Nicolai, who'd helped develop the original concept

The worst thing is that the patent should never have been issued anyway, due to prior art.

I have a picture of a full suss bike from 1891 on my phone. The damping doesn't look up to much though.

GT's idrive desgin has to be up there though can't remember when they first came up with it.

I believe John Boyd Dunlop was one of the first to come up with a full suspension design 😉

Surely the oldest 'suspension' system is the pneumatic tyre?

Surely the oldest 'suspension' system is the pneumatic tyre?

Beat ya PP 😀

If we're talking about mountain bikes: Idrive is no where near one of the oldest. I think Boulder had a design in 1990, GT's RTS-1 came out in 1992(?), Proflex were going for it from 1990 onwards, Mountain Goat in 1991, Manitou about the same time. Mantis pro-floater was about 91/92. There are probably a bunch of others. Also AMP Research must've been 91/92? I thought Turner started pre-1994?
Sorry bit of a pre-coffee stream of consciousness there 😆

I reckon slingshot's must be up there- late 80's. And San Andreas a notable mention cos that design just went on and on and on for years- actually just looked it up- quote from the website:

As testimony to its success, the San Andreas ‘Classic’ (as opposed to the DNA) is the “longest running full-suspension MTB in history” – believe it or not – she’s 20 years old this year!

The great Mert Lawwill was one of the first to come up with an effective modern design AFAIK

Specialized first employed the FSR design around 1992, and it's gone largely unchanged since then, so that has to be a serious contender. That Big Hit's a really cheap bike, so doesn't really count, they've not done any other suspension designs in the interim period, so I guess they're the best for championing their own system.

The Horst patent only stands in the US, you can do whatever you want if you don't want to sell your bike in the US.

I have a GT I-Drive XCR2000, I'm fairly sure it was the first year GT did the i-drive and it's a 1999 model. It's an awesome bike, though I have had to rebuild a lot of the rear suspension with silicone rubber to quieten it down now as it's started to wear and I'm too tight to spend any money on it.

What about Brian Skinner? I remember that being one of the first modern mtb suspension designs.
The AMP design (or more accurately Mongoose) then morphed into the Specialized design.
Cannondale also had a very early suspension design – a mate had one in the very early 90s after winning something at the Malverns.

I think the OPs point was that all of these companies have since come up with something that is 'better'. Specialized 'employed' the 4-bar in the early 90s saying 'this is the best' and they're still saying that now.

Surprised no one has mentioned the 1987 built, SE Shocker yet

26/24 Wheel set up as well.

Just wanted to say that this image screams all kinds of cool!

I saw that on firstflight cfh, not sure that it really counts- I file it under this sort of thing- a guy I went to school with had one of these in the 70's:

surely its just the single pivot in one of its many forms as someone pointed out above? You cant argue that a linkage driven shock is any fundamentaly different to their original ones, specialized are on about their 4th or 5th generation of FSR bikes (a single rigid strut from the horst link to the shock behind seatpost was the original design, then it gained an extra link betweent the seatstay and link behind the seatpost, then the shock moved under the seatpost on the original enduro where it stayed for a while, then there was the epic which was a bit of a dead end in evolution terms, then it went lower with the demo, enduro and SX, before the link undergoing a massive revision to become a type 1 lever from a type 3, then finaly we've ended up with a type 3 lever in the same position the 3rd generation had the shock. Its hardly been consistent has it?

Whats the difference between a lawill design and an FSR? Same number of parts and pivots, in similar places?

p.s. Kona never copied the D.T. design, kona's interpretations were single pivots, the turners were horst links, kona (allong with alomst everyone else) raced them from about 94 onwards with the misser brothers.

for mountain bikes Highpath Engineering made a suspension frame in the late 80s

actualy scratch that, the epic design was not a dead end, it became the demo (another chainstay driven shock) the sx/enduro is more an evolution of the under the seatpost design that predated the epic.

San Andreas and Boulder were around in 1991 at least, Proflex a bit before IIRC.

The Shocker may be the oldest but didn't get any commercial success IIRC.

Just wanted to say that this image screams all kinds of cool!

Gary, you NEED to watch "On Any Sunday" if you haven't already. 20th Century Flicks got a copy in after I kept badgering them. 🙂

mr agreeable what was the flatracker who raced with broken leg called in on any sunday?

mr agreeable what was the flatracker who raced with broken leg called in on any sunday?

Probably Dick Mann

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vkopfn1gLU

The slow motion MX stuff in the film is just awsome, gives you an idea how much work is involved in racing a short travel MX bike..

I soooo wanted to go desert racing on a big Triumph desert sled after first seeing that movie. Barstow to Vegas was the dream.

Cannondale and Proflex were both selling bikes with rear suspension before Rock Shox released the RS1. So I suppose they were the first 'off the peg' modern mtb full-sussers. Those early 'dale suss bikes were single pivots and I cant think off a year where 'dale haven't had a single-pivot bike in their range so I suppose that is the longest running design.

I may be wrong but I think it's fair to say that GT's RTS was the first commercially successful full-suss bike.

The Verlicchi single-pivot was an important bike in that it was the first full-susser to win at the Worlds.

Specialized actually came to the 'full-suss party' quite late. Mongoose was the first 'major' manufacturer to licence the Horst Link, I think they just put Mongoose stickers on AMP frames actually. By the time FSR bikes were readily available Turner, Intense, GT and others I've forgot about had all been selling frames with what is now known as a 'Horst Link' on them.

Mmmm flat track harleys …

I think the OPs point was that all of these companies have since come up with something that is 'better'. Specialized 'employed' the 4-bar in the early 90s saying 'this is the best' and they're still saying that now.

yep njee20 is right that was my point, obviously badly worded. thanks njee20 🙂