Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 17 total)
  • Old windows in listed buildings
  • crispo
    Free Member

    Right questions for any of you that live in listed buildings.

    We’ve moved into a grade 2 listed property a few months ago and now that autumn is here and winter is on it’s way we are realising the windows need some love. The single panes aren’t the best at keeping the heat in and everyday there is condensation on the inside which inevitably drops into the wooden timbers. We can see this is making the timbers start to rot.

    So questions for people with old windows in old houses:

    Is there anything I can do to help minimise the condensation in the short term? We are getting heavy curtains and blinds for insulation but want to prevent too much damage to the frames from the moisture.

    What are the long term options? Replace with ones that look the same but have double glazing? This has been done on a couple of the windows by the previous owners. If we do this I assume we would need LBC? Do you get a joiner to look at what they can do and then go to the local conservation officer with a proposal?

    Any other ways of repairing/modernising while keeping the original frames and glass?

    Thanks hive mind!

    Squirrel
    Full Member

    Historic Buildings Officers don’t seem to like double-glazed units in my experience. They are more likely to accept secondary glazing which can actually give better thermal (and acoustic) performance anyway, but the quality is variable. I have found Selectaglaze good (but spendy).

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    Is there anything I can do to help minimise the condensation in the short term? We are getting heavy curtains and blinds for insulation but want to prevent too much damage to the frames from the moisture.

    Leave the window open, but condensation will still be an issue.

    What are the long term options? Replace with ones that look the same but have double glazing?

    I called the local planning department to discuss replacement windows in a grade 2 listed property I own. They were very very helpful but they would rather the existing windows are repaired rather than fitting replacements. You need to apply for planning permission if you want to replace and unless the windows are really rotten it’s unlikely you will get permission.

    You could get double glazed panes fitted but they would need to be ultra slim type. Windows in my place are huge, one is 2.3m high by 1m with 6 panes in each sash – cost would have been scary.

    I had secondary glazing fitted which look like a sash and case window and they have made a massive difference to sound proofing, draft proofing and warmth. I got two secondary glazed white aluminium units fitted for around £1k fitted. This was from a company that manufacturers windows and was about half the price of quotes from double glazing type companies.

    Planning permission isn’t required for secondary glazing.

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    project
    Free Member

    Fit secondary double glazin as above, and get a dehumidifer, or a whole house ventilation system.Turn the heating up, dont dry wahing in the house, unblock a chimney to act as a passive stack ventilation pipe.

    bear-uk
    Free Member

    I’ve known people that have had to remove double glazed units from listed buildings after English heritage found out.

    cvilla
    Full Member

    Lets assume that the windows are old and historic and worth keeping;) I do a few listed refurbishments and we go for secondary glazing, which means we can keep the old windows (no need for planning, but you may want to enquire about LBC depending on your authority) and allow for repairs the existing old windows. Selectaglaze are good for sash or also Storm but see examples first to check opening arrangements, there are others available, depends where you are worth checking your local area.
    As mentioned above we use white aluminium units which blend into the original windows, same profile and fitted tight to the frame.
    There is a cost involved but they will help with thermal performance and also noise insulation. They will need to be made to measure and can take quite a few weeks this time of year.

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    Local planners will get twitchy when you mention double glazing.

    We didn’t want secondary glazing, and decided to go for the super thin double glazing in replacement (but matching) existing oak frames.

    The combination of custom oak & the fancy glass is a little heavy on the wallet, but they do look lovely, our windows were a bit of a state when we bought the house.

    Funnily enough the planners were more funny about us modifying a section of the frame on the inside so they were actually lockable. We were in the awkward position of them not wanting to allow for any modifications, yet our insurer not being prepared to insure us because none of our windows are actually lockable.

    Listed property insurance is hard enough to source before you mention you have a thatched roof and windows that won’t lock properly 🙄

    Doesn’t help out conservation officer is a total c*ck too.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I have double glazed sash and case using thin sealed units. Built for me by local tradesmen and somewhat expensive. All fitted with draft excluder. There is nothing else can go in my flat ( Listed building centrre of a conservation area and secondary would look really ugly.
    When the old knackered windows were still in, over winter I put a cut to fit piece of polycarbonate over them

    woodsman
    Free Member

    Another for secondary glazing. Repair whats’s there and get secondary glazing. As far as I am aware, no LBC is requited for the secondary glazing as you are keeping the widows already there – I’ve purposely not referred to them as the originals as they could have been replaced at any time in the past, not knowing the age of your building.
    I really like secondary glazing that I have, as said thermally and acoustically it is way better than double glazing.

    tomaso
    Free Member

    Had ancienr Everest aluminium secondary glazing fitted to mum old houses sash bay windows. No condensation problems and warmer. They were fairly unobtrusive.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    We replaced the sashes in our victorian non-listed, conservation area house. Quieter, warmer, and look better than what they replaced. Not a cheap option and we only did this upstairs. About £1.5k per window.

    gofasterstripes
    Free Member

    Sorry had 5 mins to kill 😛

    wicki
    Free Member
    Andy_K
    Full Member

    These guys in Lockerbie can make double glazed sash and other conservation windows to order, plus secondary glazing and all that jazz:

    Ventrolla

    paulx
    Free Member

    We used Joineryworkshop.com – similar job. They are based in S. Manchester but cover a large part of the UK.

    We had some sashes refurbished with slimline double glazed units grafted in and some remanufactured windows to match. Looking at the house from outside it looks original but so much warmer and quieter inside. I think it averaged about £1000 per window.

    Bit gutting in some ways – loads of money spent and the house looks exactly the same …. its not like buying a new kitchen where you can really see where the money went.

    beardo74
    Free Member

    Our short term (becoming long term!) solution was a Karcher window vac to clean off the condensation in the morning. Takes about 5 minutes every morning to do all the bedroom windows while you are opening the blinds/ curtains. Certainly keeps the window frames from getting mouldy or rotten. We leave a few windows open in the day to ventilate the house too.

    The long term solution is probably a positive ventilation system blowing air from the loft, but that involves more money, installation and a suitable loft space. There is a very long thread about them on here somewhere. Got to be cheaper than £1k per window though…. 😯

    We find that insulated curtains and a cheap roller blind over the single glazing provides adequate insulation.

    crispo
    Free Member

    Thanks for all the comments.

    I think we will look at going down the replacement with thin double glazing option. That’s what the previous owners did with the one they already changed. Also the adjoining barn was done up about 15 years ago and when they did that they changed the windows for wooden frame thin double glazing. Hopefully with all that already done the conservation officer should be ok with replacing with similar style.

    I guess it’s a case of getting a local joiner to have a look what he can do and then applying to the council to approve it!?

    I think for the mean time over the winter it’ll be keeping it well ventilated and have the wood burners going a lot to keep the house warm and dry. Looking to get one of those fans that sits on the burners too to spread the heat through the house!

    Cheers

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