The guillotine was invented in 1792, anaesthetics were first used in 1842 according to Wikipedia, so it must be true (IIRC Queen Victoria was the first person to be given chloroform to aid childbirth, although maybe not the first to aid conception) Anyway, before anaesthetics amputations were not good, the surgeon had to cut all the flesh as quickly as he could and then use a bone saw very quickly, why didn’t they just use mini leg/arm guillotines? (Or an axe prior to the invention of the guillotine?) A clean cut done very quickly, too obvious?

I wondered the same after hearing something on r4 yesterday. An old time surgeon had about 7 minutes to take an arm or leg off before the patient would bleed to death. With no anaesthetic bar gin and beer – would have been a long 7 minutes for the patient.

Lets find out

I imagine they cut the flesh longer than thebone to give them something to wrap around the end of the bone. Guillotine would cut them both the same length

I think a lot of early surgery had more to do with satisfying the curiosity of the surgeon than the health or survival of the patient 🙂

You need to leave enough skin and flesh to make flaps to such together.

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Man-guillotine-axe-chop-hand/story-20877676-detail/story.html

We may have heard the same program jonv!
Do they need to sew the flaps together, I thought they dipped the ends in tar or something to seal and sterilise in one go? I don;t know if they knew they were sterilising in those days or they just did it because it seemed to help

There was a guy in Bizarre magazine (years ago when it was interesting)who had a guillotine and who had cut most of his limbs off.
So I guess it’s possible.

The surgical instrument company I work for still make amputation saws and plates that are of the same design used in 1850’s in Germany. Our factory has a museum reacting a war scene of a surgeon carrying out an amputation using such equipment. A good military surgeon as previously said could do it in a matter of minutes but I imagine the suturing took a lot longer after that

Ladies and gentlemen- I give you the Osteotome:

Tell you something, if I invent a time machine tomorrow, I’m not going far into the past at all, no sir.

A good military surgeon as previously said could do it in a matter of minutes but I imagine the suturing took a lot longer after that

A mate of mine (skipper) did his arm just below the elbow in a matter of seconds, that did involve a fishing boat and a large winch though – needless to say he now stays in the wheelhouse and just barks orders at his crew.

When surgery was done by barbers, did anyone come out clutching a stump saying I only asked for a little of the sides.

Marie Antoinette asked for a little bit off the top….

Did people know that the brain actually does/can/did stay concious after the head being cut off?

http://www.aintnowaytogo.com/beheading

It’s near the bottom, the account by Dr. Beaurieux.

I swear I once saw a thread on here where someone posted their foot had fallen off.
And I thought impossible. But their foot had indeed fallen off and they had the pictures to prove it.

Can’t seem to find it anywhere.

There was a thread where wca was in danger of losing a foot due to an accident (obviously, it’s wca) but in the end he opted for some other therapy. I shudder to think what would happen if he decided to build a guillotine though.

I seriously contemplated elective amputation of my little finger a few years back. I broke it badly playing cricket, across the joint so now it won’t bend more than about 45 degrees, and it sticks out like I’m drinking tea from a china cup. Initially I kept catching it on everything, and as it was serving no purpose I really thought I’d be better off without. But over time I’ve made allowances and now it doesn’t really bother me, except when I have a pocket of change. Because I can’t make a proper fist with that hand, if I get a handful of change in that hand it all falls out of the bottom!

I seriously contemplated elective amputation of my little finger a few years back. I broke it badly playing cricket, across the joint so now it won’t bend more than about 45 degrees, and it sticks out like I’m drinking tea from a china cup.

Not a doctor but imagine that’s probably quite easily fixable by an orthopaedic surgeon.

Did people know that the brain actually does/can/did stay concious after the head being cut off?

http://www.aintnowaytogo.com/beheading

It’s near the bottom, the account by Dr. Beaurieux.

From the same link… 😀

Dr Livingstone wrote that Africans he encountered were aware that consciousness is not lost immediately. He recounts how they bent a springy sapling and tied cords from it under the ears of a man to be decapitated so that his last few moments of awareness would be of flying through the air.

Not a doctor but imagine that’s probably quite easily fixable by an orthopaedic surgeon.

Apparently not. Based on what i was told after looking at X-rays and what i recall from 15 years ago, where the fracture went right across the joint, the repaired bone growth on the joint surface(s) is impacting on the movement of the two across each other so they sort of snag.

It was an option to open it up and try and shave the excess off, but then you’d get more bone growth so it would be a bit of guesswork as to how much to take off. Not enough and the problem just comes back; too much and you have an unstable joint that just a minor stub would dislocate.

Not a doctor but imagine that’s probably quite easily fixable by an orthopaedic surgeon.

I think it was John Cooper Clarke who once said “I may not be a qualified eye surgeon but I’ve read a few books and I’ve got a few ideas of my own”

impacting on the movement of the two across each other so they sort of snag.

I discovered yesterday that sensation is called ‘Crepitus’, the tendons in my arm are doing the same thing just now. ‘Crepitus’ is also defined as ‘noisy discharge of fetid gas from the intestine through the anus’

So now you’ve got two reasons not to ask anyone to pull your finger.

My great great great great great grandfather sir James young Simpson, was the guy who administered chloroform to Queen Vic… There’s a statue of him on Prince’s St in Edinburgh.

– Use a mini-guillotine to cut through the limb below where the amputation point is
– Cut some Vs in the skin back to the point of the amputation and roll the skin back
– Use the mini-guillotine to cut through the bone at the point where the amputation is required
– Fold the skin over the cut bone and sew it together

alpin – Member

My great great great great great grandfather sir James young Simpson, was the guy who administered chloroform to Queen Vic…

Your grandfather abducted Queen Victoria? Cool!

With no anaesthetic bar gin and beer – would have been a long 7 minutes for the patient.

I don’t think they used alcohol as an anaesthetic (at least not in Nelson’s navy) as they knew it thins the blood. Therefore you’re more likely to bleed to death.

Apparently amputations on warships had quite a high survival rate. The figures for HMS Victory during Trafalgar, where it suffered heavy casualties, are something like 24 amputations of which four died.

– Use the mini-guillotine to cut through the bone at the point where the amputation is required

I’m no expert, but I wouldn’t imagine a guillotine actually gives an especially clean cut through bone. You’re probably not really all that fussed about bludgeoning your way though and leaving bone fragments if the person on the receiving end is getting deaded.

A samurai sword would have been the answer then…