Hi, had a search on here and found a thread a year or so ago where people were starting to use offset bushings.

Just wondering how people had got on with them in the long term. Have you had any issue with bushing wear, or play etc? Any unforeseen issues with changing the geo?

I assuming that there isn’t an easy way to work out the effective change in BB height with offset bushes?

The ones that I bought from Proshox have been fine. They noticeably changed the handling of the bike, slackening the head angle about a degree and lowering the BB about 1/4 inch IIRC. No reliability issues for me.

There was an interference issue when I installed them. The tube connecting the rockers fouled the seat tube, so had to file a hole in it!

Out of interest what bike was this on? Single pivot / VPP / DW / Horst etc?
Were they the 6 or 8mm? i.e 1.5 degree or 1 degree ones?

Ta

I assuming that there isn’t an easy way to work out the effective change in BB height with offset bushes?

If you know how much offset you are going for then support the bike in a stand pop out a shock bolt and measure it. My old enduro had a flip flop plate that did the same, you could get it in the workstand to change it but had to move the bike a little.

This method may require extra hands

I had the early Steamer ones, they ovalised very quickly- I think the hole was just drilled too close to the edge of the “bushing”. But with a better design I’d expect no issues at all- no reason why there should be after all.

I wanted some but they wouldn’t fit the due to lack of space behind the swinging arm, and fitting only one the front seems half hearted, I didn’t get em.

Anyways, IIRC it been suggest that the ali version’s deform over time*, so a harder metal is recommended. Not sure about this, as most shock top hats are Ali, so why would …. oh ok, as you’ve less metal on the side your off-setting to, so maybe it is a concern after all…

Kevin making hardened ali ones (where I first heard of them)

Burgtec Ti ones
Other manufacturers are available 😉

[EDIT: NW posted a whole 2 seconds before me!]

I have a single one in my Bandit 29er, took 1/2 a degree off the head tube angle and dropped the BB about 4mm as I recall.

1/2 a degree just helps with my only issue with the handling of the bike so happy and have another for when the one wears out or i am heading somewhere steep, maybe say Les Arcs etc.

I fully expect them to wear quickly but the cost is sensible so happy.

I bought some which needed filing to fit and when I did them up they would change position.
So fairly fiddly to use and I’ve not had the patience to try them out.

I’ve had offset bushes in My old Kona Stab since last Feb I have an M6 at one end of the shock and an M8 at the other, the most offset I could have was M8: 2mm + M6: 3mm giving a total “effective shock shortening” of 5mm.

I know my bike uses a compression ratio of 2.8:1 (and it’s quite “linear” too) so I calculated that it effectively moves the suspension’s “Starting position” to about the 12~14mm-ish compressed position, from what I could measure the reduction in Shock length is worth about -1 degree off the SA and HA and that the BB effectively drops ~0.5″

It was the first of a couple of changes I made and it did have a small but noticeable effect on the feel of the bike, initially it made it feel a wee bit more stable at speed and on steep sections, but it wasn’t enough for what I wanted not really as pronounced an effect as I’d hoped.

All the bike was doing was sitting a little further into its rear travel, it took a ~68 degree HA back to about 67, dropped the BB ~0.5″ and increased the wheelbase by maybe +0.25″.

TBH what made a far bigger difference on top of the offset bushes was raising the forks in the crowns another 20mm (increasing A-C) and installing a softer rear spring, all of which contributed towards slackening the bike further, getting the BB to settle a bit lower whan sagged, making the back end feel like it tracks and grips a bit better too. the static figures are probably not that massively affected but the way the bike feels with my weight on it is quite different now from the starting point…

That was of course all for a DH bike, where I was more willing to sacrifice pedaling efficiency and seated comfort for more stability.
Of course changing one variable affects all the others so essentially shortening the shock just highlighted for me that certain other things needed changing too…

For a “trail” type bike where you still want to pedal up, and you are happy with how the suspension already behaves but want to bring the angles back a tad and/or lower the BB then I’d give the offset bushes a go, it’s not a difficult change to undo if you don’t like the effect…

the other option would be an angle-set, but that costs more and is a bit more faff to install (depending on the bike of course)…

I’ve had three different lots and the only ones that have lasted are burgtec. One instance where IME you get what you pay for…….

Cheers for the info guys!

The frame in question is an Intense Socom I picked up off ebay cheap. I think the head angle is a bit steep at 66.5 degrees and I think getting it somewhere closer to 64.5ish would be an improvement. It will be being used as a pure DH bike I have a nomad for everything else.

I was looking at the Burgtec Ti ones (8mm hardware) to drop the BB a touch and the HA by a degree. I’m temped to go for a angleset to drop it by another degree or so. Anyone used the works ones? Ive only used a C.Creek angleset on my V10 before.

Offset bushings strike me as a bit of a bodge compared to the “proper” job a headset does.

Hmmm, The Socom was intended as more of a Rufty-Tuffty Mini DH frame wasn’t it?

66.5 degree HA is a reasonable starting point, The Socom has a 1.5″ head tube though doesn’t it? Which makes an angle-set a more viable option:

£75 will get you a -2 degree jobbie from Works components

As yours is a DH build then i’d spend the extra ~£30 on the angleset, you’re unlikely to want to go back to 66.5*, right?

You might squeek another -1 deg’ out of some offset bushes, but it will also affect the SA and BB height of course, maybe one to try if your not totally happy once the cups are in? …

The only reason I went down the line of offset bushes and tweaking other bits is that my old Kona has “Classic” Kona DH/FR bike geometry as stock i.e. High BB and steep angles for wobbling about on bit’s of elevated timber in Canukiland, and what I wanted was more of a mini DH bike, all my jiggery-pokery has probably gotten me to a point still some way short of where your Socom is as standard, but I’m happy enough…

It’s a turn polishing exercise for my bike, for your Socom I think “honourablegeorge” is kind of right, the cups make sense especially for a 1.5″ Head tube…

I’ve got 1/2 a set (one end of shock only) in my Covert – feels better (maybe placebo effect?)

In terms of durability they have lasted miles longer than Fox hardware – they were only about a tenner from an old thread on here. Took ages to arrive though and communication was a bit poor, think it might be a bloke turning them out in his spare time. No problems once they were fitted though!

My bike is essentially an Ellsworth Truth; 4″ full suspension Horst link/instant center tracking. I don’t remember having any option on the offset bushings, so I guess they were 6 mm. I got offsets for both the upper and lower end of the shock. Proshox are stainless steel, so heavier than the Burgtech, but 1/2 the price. No durability issues so far.

I also did the Works 1 1/8″ angleset. It made a similar, noticeable change in handling and geometry. LBS said that it was tough to fit due to the headset press wanting to twist it a bit, and it needs to be lined up a lot better than logos need to be. My top bearing went, and that seems to be a common problem. There is a rubber seal on the top, but the upper cup is flat on top so probably lets water pool and get in easier than a regular headset. But they’re a common bearing, so no big deal.

I’m happy with both the Proshox bushings and Works headset and would recommend either/both.

FWIW the works headset is dead easy to fit as long as you use the appropriate tool, ie, a rubber mallet. Headset fitting tools have a way of rotating.

Thing with the bushings is that they effectively move your bike further on in the travel. So, sure, there’s obvious things like just running out of frame clearance. But if you’ve got a frame with clever ratios it might cause oddness. (say, something like a Last with a linear-becoming-progressive curve, you’ll have less linear and more progressive and a bit on the end that christ knows what it’ll do)

PS, I just found my other 3mm offset bushing htat i never fitted! Might have to pop that in.

I don’t know if I would describe it as a Mini DH bike, it was designed as a slightly less ‘world cup’ orientated DH bike I think, i.e. slightly steeper and shorter but still 8″ travel and designed for dual crowns etc. You do see a fair few around with single crown 180mm totems / 36’s etc but just sitting on it it feels more like a DH bike than anything.

Think I might try a angleset – that was my original plan – im not sure what effectively shortening the i2i of the shock with do to the leverage / linkage ratios especially with the VPP. Think the headset warrants replacing anyway.

Not sure whether to go for the whole 2degree in one go with a headset now.

I wouldn’t worry about the longevity of the bushings… is it a FRO?

Yeah its FRO. No Cracks in it currently. I’m under no allusions that I’m not going to break the stays.

Every 951 I know of broke the chainstays at least once. Said I’d never buy an Intense but it was cheap. Was only 640GBP for the full bike as a slightly drunken ebay purchase.

Its just meant to be a cheapo interim DH bike as my V10 is in the UK and Im still waiting for Fox to fix my 34’s on my Nomad which I have out here. However as with any bike I buy I’m doing the ‘i’ll just swap X Y & Z out’ and end up basically changing everything bar the frame… 😛

When it breaks I’ll buy a full carbon V10 to replace the Half carbon one I have. Or maybe a Demo, I rode one the on the weekend and was surprised by how well it tracked and cornered.

round the seat post is the the crack zone 🙂

Over east it’s looking like a 2 week turnaround on Fox, though the new 2014 double lockout lever seems to be next on the recall/mass replace list.

Seat post / top tube junction or BB / seat post junction?

My forks got turned around in two weeks. Just came back with the same problem even though Fox had allegedly changed the cart…

fair enough, they are sending the recall carts out if you ask but still doing warranty in house from what I heard this morning.
On the Socom seat post/TT I have seen (there was at least one traded on here 3 times)

Ah yeah I had a pretty good look last night when it turned up and didnt see anything obvious. I think the one that did the on here was the classic ‘not enough seat post inserted’ IIRC.

Its got plenty of battle scars already but I didnt see any obvious cracking – I was however paying most attention to the chain stays where Intense usually break. To be honest for $1100 for a full bike with Boxxers, MTX/Sun ringle, X7 / X9, Elixir R’s etc it’l do the job.

66.5 a bit steep?! Feels way too slack for most things to me.

My V10 is 65, but that slackens out a lot because of the sag, the Demo I was riding the other day is 64.

My Nomad is 67 and that feels a bit too steep when you get on the steep stuff.

DH bike should be slack maybe not as far as some that are getting to 63 – 63.5 however…