I loved the carnival, went a few times. The last time though (about 10 years ago?)* I got involved in something I should’ve walked away from and out comes a knife. I legged it down the canal and got as far as Paddington before my HR returned to somewhere near normal! That was about the only trouble I ever saw there.

*Tried to report it at Paddington Green nick but they wouldn’t let me in as they were holding some high profile terrorism suspect – not sure if that dates it, 2005 maybe?

actually clophopper, you’ve said that anyone who doesn’t like it / want to go / are concerned over the viability is in some way raciest / xenophobic. Even if ot at first glance, you only need to dig a little deeper. I’ll happily admit to being white and middle class. London is great for a couple of days but I bloody hate massive crowds of people I equally don’t go to Glastonbury despite it being about 5 miles from home and having free tickets. No real idea of what the carnival is like but thousands of people crammed into a small space just isn’t my idea of a great time.
Am I racist? No, don’t think so*. Certainly not due to not wanting to go to a sodding carnival!
Now think really hard. Who’s being an idiot here?

*some of my best friends are…

“I wouldn’t want to go because its not really my thing. So I’m an uptight white lower middle class racist am I?”

Only if you want to be. 🙄

“actually clophopper, you’ve said that anyone who doesn’t like it / want to go / are concerned over the viability is in some way raciest / xenophobic.”

No; what I actually said, was:

“Interestingly, the only people I’ve encountered who haven’t been/wouldn’t go, are uptight white lower middle class types, typical Mail and Express readers. The kind of people who will drone on about the ‘massive crime levels’, stabbings, robberies etc, where all the time you just know there’s an undercurrent of racism behind it all. “

Notice that I haven’t actually said that ” anyone who doesn’t like it / want to go / are concerned over the viability is in some way raciest / xenophobic.” I haven’t said that at all. I’d appreciate it if you didn’t mis-quote me.

IE; the only people I’ve encountered who oppose carnival have been white, lower middle class Mail/Telegraph reading closet racists.

Please notice the distinction. It’s very important. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough earlier.

Right; have we cleared this nonsense up? Good. 😀

Couple of interesting articles about Carnival:

This BBC Picture Accidently Sums Up The Gentrification Of Notting Hill Carnival: Here’s 3 Things Ruining Carnival

http://www.antoinespeaks.co.uk/in-defence-of-notting-hill-carnival-black-culture-if-you-want-to-ban-carnival-due-to-crime-then-ban-football-nightclubs-and-epsom-derby-day/

mrlebowski – Member

454 arrests at one event, more than 1000 treated by ambulance/1st aid and 43 police officers injured. At one event – doesn’t sound like an average w/e in London to me..

It’s all about volume. It’s much like music festivals- people always report “45 arrested at Reading Festival” and it sounds a lot but if you have 100000 people having a party for 3 days, and spread it out the equivalent number of friday nights in a city centre, or football matches, it looks very different. 2 million people, 2 days, 450 arrests, it’s not really so high.

“Jobby found floating in water” is bad news if it’s your water bottle but less worrying if it’s the sea.

I used to live up the road from it. After a few times we stopped going. Near the start of the procession you could literally feel the hatred. As it turned dusk was the worse though.

It needs moving (away from people’s homes( or cancelling IMO.

I’ve been to other carnivals and there’s a different vibe to them. Sadly the Nottinghill one feels scary.

“Near the start of the procession you could literally feel the hatred.”

What hatred? I’ve been many times, and never felt any ‘hatred’.

I agree it’s too big for the area it’s in. I agree it can feel very claustrophobic. I agree that there are inadequate facilities for the volume of people. I agree there are some minority elements bent on causing trouble. I agree that there can be issues when some individuals get drunk. I don’t agree with the mainly right-wing sensationalist media’s claims of it being ‘marred by crime’ etc.

And the Met Police Commander in charge of the event doesn’t seem to think there were ‘massive issues’ either:

http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-from-police-commander-for-notting-hill-carnival-2016-182480

“I am very proud of all the officers and staff who were deployed to Carnival this year. Once again they demonstrated their unwavering professionalism and bravery to ensure this spectacular celebration, that headlines the London event calendar, was not spoilt by a small minority wishing to use the Carnival a cover for committing crime.”

I don’t see any evidence to support the view that carnival is “getting out of hand”. I’ve been going on and off since the mid nineties and it’s remained pretty much the same as far as I can see.

It’s all about volume. It’s much like music festivals- people always report “45 arrested at Reading Festival” and it sounds a lot but if you have 100000 people having a party for 3 days, and spread it out the equivalent number of friday nights in a city centre, or football matches, it looks very different. 2 million people, 2 days, 450 arrests, it’s not really so high.

Agreed, but the fact that it’s all happening in such a condensed area – bit of a pressure cooker IMHO.

Which leads me to this:

I agree it’s too big for the area it’s in. I agree it can feel very claustrophobic. I agree that there are inadequate facilities for the volume of people. I agree there are some minority elements bent on causing trouble. I agree that there can be issues when some individuals get drunk. I don’t agree with the mainly right-wing sensationalist media’s claims of it being ‘marred by crime’ etc.

Which I also agree with.

I think it would be better off moved to larger area, but then I think you’d lose that Carnival vibe – the bass bouncing off buildings, the sound systems echoing up the streets long before you’ve reached them & the bumping, grinding mass of humanity which you get pulled along with.

It’s a difficult one with no clear answer, though if the powers that be are content then it should just be allowed to carry on.

(But there’s never anything wrong with asking the question or is there?)

Is it time to end Carnival?

No!

The whole point of a carnival is that it is transgressive.

Societies all over the world have a tradition of taking over the streets for the odd weekend every year, to drink, dance and have a good time. There’s a town in Germany I think where the annual tradition is to lock the Mayor and the Chief of Police in a cell, then all go out into the street and get p!ssed.

The reality of carnivals in modern cities is that they require licences, permissions, etc. You may wonder why the policing nightmare that is the Notting Hill Carnival is so readily permitted. It’s because 1. It’s a safety valve. People need to blow off some steam every now and then. and 2. not even the police are so mean-spirited as to try to stop thousands and thousands of people from having fun on a summer weekend. 3. It’s an important cultural event for people of West Indian descent, and we live in a society where people are free to celebrate their cultures.

The Notting Hill Carnival should not be “banned” because of the actions of a few thugs any more than cycling events should be stopped because of the bellends who throw their gel wrappers into hedgerows.

The Notting Hill Carnival should not be “banned” because of the actions of a few thugs any more than cycling events should be stopped because of the bellends who throw their gel wrappers into hedgerows.

Gel wrapper V 450 arrests, 43 cops injured, 8 needing hospital treatment.

Are many people stabbed at cycling events?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/aug/30/notting-hill-carnival-arrests-hit-record-high

Well said hebdencyclist

Gel wrapper V 450 arrests, 43 cops injured, 8 needing hospital treatment.

as I said earlier.. probably not massively dissimilar to any other weekend in the capital

great alarmist reporting though