Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)
  • Notice periods – how enforcable are they?
  • DT78
    Free Member

    When my wife was promoted some years ago, her notice went from 1 month to 3. We didn’t know this at the time, and no new contract was signed, though HR tell her this is the case for her ‘grade’.

    This is proving to be a bit of a pain when it comes to discussing potential roles with other companies, not many are willing to wait 3 months. In fact most seem to want you to start next week…

    So, how enforceable is a notice period? She wouldn’t be going to a competitor or have any commercial type impact to the business.

    Potentially the employer will let her go early anyway (it has in the past) but you can’t really have that conversation up front.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Very hard, company would have to take you to court to get an injunction enforcing the contract. This would only happen for very senior (board level) positions for FTSE companies.

    iolo
    Free Member

    Depends on if she wants to piss her current employer off.
    She’s on 3 months and want’s to go after a week?
    Not giving her current employer a chance to find a replacement and have a handover period?
    Do you believe that to be fair?

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    back2basics
    Free Member

    i thought there was some superseeding EU law that means as long as you dont owe them money and you dont breach your contract in terms of competition / detrimental to business they cannot hold you to more than 4 weeks…?

    it would be like if you wanted to break your mobile phone 12 month contract early, as long as you pay them the balance, you can leave, they cannot enforce you to keep with them for the remainder…

    andyfla
    Free Member

    Also interesting, if she never signed a new contract I would assume the company needs to show she knew about the change of notice – no idea how they do that.

    From what I have seen they are fairly unenforceable, goodwill being the only thing that stops people from walking off, if they haven’t paid you in advance for the work how do they hold you to it.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Also interesting, if she never signed a new contract I would assume the company needs to show she knew about the change of notice – no idea how they do that.

    They normally send you a letter, which you read and instantly forget about…

    elliot100
    Free Member

    Also interesting, if she never signed a new contract I would assume the company needs to show she knew about the change of notice – no idea how they do that.

    though HR tell her this is the case for her ‘grade’.

    IME that kind of detail is given in the copy of the staff handbook given on joining, and which the contract states forms part of terms and conditions. I would make doubly sure this isn’t the case before doing anything else.

    andyfla
    Free Member

    They normally send you a letter, which you read and instantly forget about…

    Not sure under English law (I did the degree many, many years ago so I am probably wrong) that being sent a letter is proof of receipt unless it is signed for.

    Sorry, my inner pedant came out, I am off to finish the hobnobs now

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    When I was Tupe’d a few years ago my notice period was supposed to rise from 4 weeks to 8. I queried it at the time and got it changed back to 4 but the HR bod did say that it didn’t really matter as there wasn’t really anything they could do to stop you from just leaving and and starting a new job if that’s what you decided to do.

    Obviously they won’t pay for you the notice that you didn’t work but if you are heading for a new job that won’t be an issue.

    MrsToast
    Free Member

    I’m interested in this – I’ve got a friend where the standard notice period is three months for the employee, but the employer only has to give one month. They’re making him work the full three months, which means he has problems with potential employers not being able to wait. I vaguely remember reading that under EU law this wasn’t enforceable due to the notice period being different between parties.

    andyfla
    Free Member

    IME that kind of detail is given in the copy of the staff handbook given on joining, and which the contract states forms part of terms and conditions

    Would they have details of differing contract conditions in there ? Not sure as I don’t think I have ever read one 🙂

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    Fairly open for negotiation, I had a 3 month notice period in my previous role, yet being client facing, that was clearly a silly idea they hadn’t thought through.

    I was put on gardening leave with immediate effect. I had to attend a few handover meetings, but that was all. I had a decent manager who had a handle on my role anyway (which is the way it should be) so of I was run over by a bus they could carry on as expected.

    I think I left officially after 1 month, they paid for 2. I had 6 weeks off to ride my bike in the summer as my new employer didn’t push me too hard for a start date.

    If she’s discussing it with other companies, I would suggest she says it’s officially 3 months, but they will allow negotiation on that.

    boblo
    Free Member

    What would you say if the boot was on the other foot and the employer was trying to ‘wriggle out of their commitments’? It’s a two way street after all.

    Advise the new employer of the notice period as anyone decent will understand, give notice and try and negotiate early exit.

    IHN
    Full Member

    When my wife was promoted some years ago, her notice went from 1 month to 3. We didn’t know this at the time, and no new contract was signed, though HR tell her this is the case for her ‘grade’.

    A guy I used to work with had exactly this; a promotion put him on a higher grade that officially came with a longer notice period. However, he later gave the ‘original’ notice when leaving, arguing that he’d never recieved anything at the time of the promotion to say which if his T&Cs of employment had changed. The company (a big Financial Services firm, who’s HR dept, you would assume, would know their shizzle) gave in…

    elliot100
    Free Member

    Would they have details of differing contract conditions in there ? Not sure as I don’t think I have ever read one

    Not differing individual conditions, but where it’s linked to grade (as per OP) or length of service. It’s quite a good idea to read them…!

    I’d agree it’s ultimately negotiable, but you should know your initial bargaining position i.e. what you have signed up to.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Not very in my limited experience.

    Best to be reasonable and honest though, especially if she’s in a small industry.

    From the other side of the desk, I think most employers will wait a reasonable time for the right person. You’d rather have your first choice in six weeks (say) than your second choice next week.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    If its not in the contract, and they didn’t send a letter stating ‘this is a change to the T&C’s of your contract of employment at the time of promotion, then they can swivel.

    johndoh
    Free Member

    I’d say to any potential new employers that I’d honour my contractual obligations to the incumbent – if they see that as a positive personality trait I would expect that to add to my employability. If they think I should shaft the incumbent then they wouldn’t be the sort of company I would want to work for…

    boblo
    Free Member

    @johndoh exackerly… I wonder what notice period you’d expect her to be paid if she was being given the bullet?

    hooli
    Full Member

    3 months is quite common for senior roles where I am, don’t think anybody has had an issue leaving as companies expect this for the grade and are prepared to wait for the right person.

    iolo
    Free Member

    Here’s a thought, maybe I’m wrong (I probably am) but if you leave short of your notice they will just dismiss you.
    You CV will then have – reason for leaving – sacked.
    Am I right?

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Practically it is not enforceable, in her position I would try to give a month, that seems reasonable to her existing employer, and the new employer should be understanding too.

    She could also try using holiday for the notice period to enable an overlap, ie start working for the new job while officially on holiday from the last. However, this may be a bit dodgy.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    They can refuse to grant holiday (and then pay for any unused days).

    It’s hard to enforce notice periods though – they’d have to show consequential costs and unless they go and hire a temp straight away, it’s hard to prove and unlikely to be worth their time/effort unless you take the p!ss. Most just negotiate the period. You should expect a month minimum as no company worth working for is going to have an issue with that and if she’s reasonably senior, most shouldn’t be surprised by two months. Not to mention avoiding burning bridges.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    You CV will then have – reason for leaving – sacked.

    You’d have to be pretty daft to put that on your CV though.

    mt
    Free Member

    What sort of company does not understand a 3 months notice period. I’d not consider going to a company that would expect me to break my T&C’s. Mind you I’d not be held to a contract I’d not seen or signed.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    You CV will then have – reason for leaving – sacked.
    Am I right?

    No, you’ve already resigned…

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Here’s a thought, maybe I’m wrong (I probably am) but if you leave short of your notice they will just dismiss you.
    You CV will then have – reason for leaving – sacked.
    Am I right?

    No.

    MSP
    Full Member

    I wonder what notice period you’d expect her to be paid if she was being given the bullet?

    In most cases, the minimum the company think they can get away with. If you put up a fight, then you will get your legal entitlement. So yes it does cut both ways, company’s treat employees as disposable commodities yet demand respect and loyalty, they can **** off.

    dragon
    Free Member

    Like others have said negotiate and likewise I’d be very dubious of companies that can’t even wait the standard month. In my experience they’ll wait the 3 months necessary if they think you are good. The new company will probably grumble a bit, but tough. As long as you informed them up front, then they gave you the offer knowing that you’d have to work 3 months, so it’s their problem.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Notice period are very enforceable and generally are. If your wife never signed a new contract she can fight it. She can quit and start a new job in a month (old notice period) but she runs the risk of being sued. It does depend upon what process was followed to inform her of new notice period and what her existing contract says about varying key terms such as this.

    @MSP if you are fired you get your notice period, what’s argued about is any redundancy or compensation for loss of office.

    DT78
    Free Member

    A lot of the roles in her field of work are contract positions rather than full time certainly very few local perm roles at her level are advertised locally. hence having a 3 month notice rules you pretty much out of the contract market. Telling the agent offering the contract you have a 3 month notice period means you don’t even get put forwards for the role. For perm work at a like for like level I agree they should expect to wait for a notice period.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Potentially a restraint of trade issue if that really is the case.

    boblo
    Free Member

    Aaaaahhh so she want’s to wriggle out of a nice secure perm position early as she’s had a sniff of a lucrative Contract role? Cake-eat-have-and-it.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    nemesis – Member

    Potentially a restraint of trade issue if that really is the case.

    No its not, if they pay her 3 months they are entitled to say she continues at work or they may put her on gardening leave. Restraint of trade is where they contractually prevent you taking a certain work after you’ve left while they are no longer paying you.

    A mate of mine was on 12 months notice and his employer put him on gardening leave – magic !

    tomd
    Free Member

    Presumably if your wife was made redundant she’d want the full 3 months? It’s a two way street.

    I left a job with 3 month notice period. The best way is to negotiate it down. Also, I’d run a mile from a prospective job that was so desperate they couldn’t wait 3 months and wanted me to shaft current employer.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    In my experience it also depends on who you are moving to. Leaving for a major competitor (providing it doesn’t infringe a non-compete) then you may have hassles. Anyone else for the move you can usually negotiate down. I negotiated when I left my last role.

    The flip side – running a company in a US “no notice state” I had one guy just walk today and even senior people only give two weeks notice 🙁

    DT78
    Free Member

    Market seems crazy, virtually no perm roles (where people are happy to wait for the notice) but loads of contract roles, where people want you to start asap and 3 months rules you out of the running….

    She is being approached by agents with contract roles daily, local ones too. She has been looking for a perm role since just before xmas and can only find roles at a lower grade.

    I’m sure she will be able to negotiate a 4-6 week notice without too much issue but it does seem like catch22 at the moment.

    MSP
    Full Member

    She is being approached by agents with contract roles daily

    Make sure they are real, agents are full of shit and often just want you on the books and available for when something does crop up.

    Speeder
    Full Member

    A mate of mine was on 12 months notice and his employer put him on gardening leave – magic !

    A friend of mine is in a similar position night now and last I saw him, his current employers are effectively doing this by encouraging him to “work” from home and only getting him in for the odd meeting. If I was in that position I’d relish the chance to have a year off but he thinks he’ll ultimately lose out as he’ll be out of things for too long.

Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)

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