So, a couple of weeks ago I was driving to North Wales, on the M62, my phone was in the door pocket and I usually have it in the centre console, so I grab the phone whilst driving and put my hand on the steering wheel, then grab the phone in my left hand and drop it in the centre console, no idea why, just where I like to have the phone, the car has a bluetooth kit and I wasn’t using it. next minute flashing lights and I get pulled for using my mobile.

I argued that I wasn’t using it, but the policeman wasn’t in a good mood, so drew up the papers, now I offered to show the call logs etc, not interested, so today the papers arrive giving the choice of the points, driving course or court, now I really want to go to court as I was definitely not using the phone, but with the costs involved and the possibility of getting **** over I’m a little pissed off, so chaps, any options apart from sitting in a driving course and growling at the **** all the way through it

Chris

I think just having the phone in your hand is enough. From memory (and happy to be corrected) technically the phone should be secured in some fashion so even having it loose on the seat could constitute an offence (sure that was the case when the laws came in but may have changed).

In any case, in your scenario as I say, just having the phone in your hand is enough IIRC.

Cheers

Danny B

Get phone provider to supply call logs and ask a solicitor?

Call logs prob dont help these days – you coulda been tweeting …

I definitely was not using the phone, so what happens if I had been moving my wallet?

It’s not just the act of making a call that’s specifically illegal. It’s also sending or receiving text messages or emails, or accessing the internet and sending/receiving data (which must surely involve using a mapping service that downloads data). So if the phone was doing any automatic up/downloading of data (to check for emails etc) at the time you were spotted and pulled them you’ve technically broken the law. If your appeal is based on “I wasn’t making a phone call” and you prove it then it doesn’t mean they won’t still ‘get’ you.

Although IANAL, so the above might be useless.

why did you pick up the phone? enough for the copper to decide you were not paying enough attention to the road around you. That and not seeing the police car!

MTFU and take it

If I could answer as to why I picked the phone up I would be happy, looked to the centre console, no phone, looked into door pocket, saw phone and moved it across

Bugger

Sounds a bit shit but not worth the hassle to fight IMO, as has been said it’s not just that you could have been calling someone but they could still claim you were using the phone (e.g. checking a text you’d already received with an address on it). I’d fight it if I was rich but not worth the risk otherwise.

if that’s the full details you presented above then unless they where already alongside you at the time then the copper must have had amazing and x-ray vision to be able to identify it was a phone you moved from one side of you to the other, I therefore suspect this ” I grab the phone whilst driving and put my hand on the steering wheel, then grab the phone in my left hand and drop it in the centre console” couldn’t have happened as quickly as you make it sound like it did
and if they whre alongside you at the time then I suggest you couldn’t have been paying much attention to do what you did, no matter how innocent
Either way, take the driving course and consider it a lesson learned

(btw Im sure its something most of have done at some point without even thinkig about it, Im sure your not alone)

Sorry OP

But

“you were not paying enough attention to the road around you. That and not seeing the police car!”

Thats quite a good point

Just take the points… Probably wont make any difference to insurance ??

I suppose the law must be absolute, the copper may say he thought you were about to make a call, he therefore potentially stopped an offence being committed (the actual purpose of the Police)I am no advocate of the police in the area you were pulled however it may be best to just take it on the chin and crack on.
A decent copper would have checked your call log there and then and given you a bit of a chat.

FWIW if I was the copper I would have let you off with a bollocking when that 20 spot fell out of your wallet after showing your drivers id

so what happens if I had been moving my wallet?

or eating an apple or opening a bag of crisps?

You won’t win, I talk from experience of going to court then paying double for their trouble

One of my colleagues took the driving course and was very impressed with it, so I’d suggest taking the course. You might learn something (how many lanes does a dual carriageway have??)

or eating an apple or opening a bag of crisps?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4247086/Motorist-fined-and-given-penalty-points-for-eating-bread-at-wheel.html

Expect the officer to say he saw you with the phone in your hand – even though he probably didn’t….
= your word against his
= the law is always right
= guilty …

Take the driving course … free(I hope) and no points.

Because doing anything other things means you are Not paying attention to the road.

The definition of not paying attention practically covers everything … when you go to court you will be arguing against the definition so it will be a tough order to change the definition.

Unless of course you have in car camera to prove your innocence. RoadHawk dash cam in future?

how many lanes does a dual carriageway have

any number in both directions as long as they are separated by a central reservation of some kind?

Its two carriageways, not two lanes

(im probably really going to regret posting that suspect Im about to get shot down in flames!)

No, you’re correct.

I did a speed patronisation awareness course a while back, and pretty much no-one knew that. Or what the speed limit was on single and dual carriageways.

It was an educational course all right, I learned that I share the roads with a large number of muppets. One young lad admitted that he didn’t know any road signs apart from the half dozen he’d memorised because they’re always the same ones on the test. I got told off for bursting out laughing at that.

Cougar – Moderator

I did a speed patronisation awareness course a while back, and pretty much no-one knew that. Or what the speed limit was on single and dual carriageways.

My TomTom would alert me to the speed limit … it would scream at me if I go beyond the limit.

My TomTom would alert me to the speed limit … it would scream at me if I go beyond the limit.

So does my phone…
…oops!
(Satnav on phone, to be precise. 😉 )

Copper sounds a right ****. Give nick freeman or whatever his name is a call!

Are you rich?
If not, the coppers right, your wrong.
No point argueing, they’ll **** you over.

What exactly was the ticket for?

I just got 3 points ,no offer of a driving course

Some companies will now take going on a course into account when they set the price of their insurance. Even if you didn’t get any points…

you were not paying enough attention to the road around you. That and not seeing the police car!

Rubbish! Can you really not pass an object across the car while looking at the road?? As for spotting the rozzer, maybe the OP did and thought nothing of it, as all they were doing was moving an object across the car.

That said, in this area the law is an absolute ass. As was the copper by the sound of it. If you get lucky with a no nonsense beak he might give the cop an ear bashing and throw him out. If not…

See it from the Officers perspective of what he saw and how many stories hes heard.

If it was me, I’d be very tempted to stand my ground/court etc but its abit of a bitter pill as you’d still have ‘come on,you were about to make a call weren’t you- you’d picked up the phone and had it in hand ready to dial the number’. So the ‘look no call logs’ wouldn’t wash.

Sorry 🙁

I always keep my phone in the back. As I am soooooooooooooooooooo tempted to peek if I hear a text alert.

Up to them to prove you guilty rather than you innocent. Deny everything and take it to court.

Take the driving course … free(I hope)

Over 80 quid IIRC.

Up to them to prove you guilty rather than you innocent. Deny everything and take it to court.

Disagree unless the OP is willing to lie against the word of an Officer when he actually did pick the phone up.

What if the OP goes all the way then some footage from an onboard cam pops up?

Would you take that risk?

As above, its not the making of a call that is an offence it is not concentrating on the road – you should have left the phone where it is or maybe noticed the large vehicle with carefully placed blue lights on the roof ……

That’s unlucky but good to hear that people get pulled, even if rarely, for mobile phone use. It seems so prevalent that I’d assumed the police had just given up.

Moreover, the ‘apprentice’ style handheld speakerphone knob jockeys means you see a lot of phone-held-against-steering-wheel-stuff

Go on the course

Disagree unless the OP is willing to lie against the word of an Officer when he actually did pick the phone up.

No need to lie about that, picking the phone, in the same way that picking up a mars bar or a can of pop, isn’t an illegal offence unless i’m mistaken.

I can see why the copper was suspicious, but his suspicions and possibly being in a bad mood aren’t the same as proof of an actual offence, that in this case never took place anyway.

No need to lie about that, picking the phone, in the same way that picking up a mars bar or a can of pop, isn’t an illegal offence unless i’m mistaken.

I seem to remember someone being fined for eating a kitkat while driving (or maybe I just read the Daily Mail one day by mistake 😕 ) I don’t think that eating or drinking in itself is an offence, but the police can judge that it results in careless driving or driving without due care and attention.

Not sure what criteria they use to make this judgement??

Have to admit, I drive about 40k a year and regularly drink / snack on the road so really not having a dig at anyone… just saying…

I got pulled over once for using my phone. Luckily my phone was in my jacket on the back seat and what the policeman had seen was one of those FM transmitters lighting up in the car when it lost signal. Still took 10 mins of him checking my phones despite seeing me get the jacket out of the back.

I’ve been pulled twice for the same offence.

The first time we had quite a lengthy argument about whether I was on my phone. Copper eventually asked to see calls logs at which point I got my phone out of my camelback from the boot of the car! I couldn’t help but feel smug.

Second time, I was again, completely innocent, eventually convinced him of that.

I now put my phone in the boot every time as I have no confidence that I wouldn’t be unfairly done for an offence that I did not commit.

I saw somebody get pulled the other day (I was walking the other side of the road) for driving with a large MacDonalds soft drink in his hand.

IIRC it’s more to do with not having two hands on the wheel (thus, unable to safely operate stalks, or change gear).

People who cannot put two hands on the wheel have specially adapted cars to compensate.

Go to court and ask for the video evidence to show what the officer thought he saw as you definitely did not use a mobile phone whilst driving. also photograph the call logs incase in court he says he saw on put the phone to your ear and use it.
If ask by the court will did you accept the ticket if you was innocent you simply was in fear of being arrest as the officer had a aggressive intimidating manor