Saddleback calls shop “look we’ve got a guy who has received a defective frame and we can’t sort him out with a suitable replacement. I know we don’t normally do this but please can you offer him a cash refund and we’ll credit your account? Cheers”

This “can” happen!!

Okay I will give that one a go. Saddleback are being merely a conduit at the moment.

What Jimmyoto and mikewsmith say.

Is the request for a refund on the frame or whole bike?

Thanks all.

Is the request for a refund on the frame or whole bike?

The whole bike. That’s what you bought from them. Not just the frame.

first hand a friend of mine with a Turner frame could not get a replacement frame from them because for lots of reasons Turner apparently wouldn’t honour it.

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation 😆 😉

The whole bike. That’s what you bought from them. Not just the frame.

What’s wrong with the rest of the components?

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation

What do you want to know?

What’s wrong with the rest of the components?

From my point of view, nothing and I’ve upgraded a heap of them.

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation

Well my recent Turner venture was not so great. Bought a brand new Czar, came with lacquer flaking. Got a good price but could I live with it I suppose.

However I discovered a crak on the down tube – and okay I got my money back after a bit of minor debate BUT crucially no more frames to replace it with.

My mate’s was much more troubling.

No use to the OP, but when i discovered a crack in my old 26″ Giant Trance frame, the fact that they no longer make any 26″ bikes and had no stock frames resulted in me getting the equivalent current model complete bike. Pretty good service I reckon.

That is really good. Santa Cruz gave me a new frame suitable for a different wheel size, different rear spacing and no shock (the old one was the wrong size)
That was crap.

What’s wrong with the rest of the components?

The purchase was a bike.

The bike was faulty and is now broken. It can’t be fixed or replaced as the broken part isn’t available.

The refund should be for what was purchased. A bike.

However I discovered a crak on the down tube – and okay I got my money back after a bit of minor debate BUT crucially no more frames to replace it with.

So in a different occasion, you got a full refund because no suitable replacement was available.

Why do you not expect the same this time? 😕

So in a different occasion, you got a full refund because no suitable replacement was available.

Why do you not expect the same this time?

Because I discovered the crack within 3 days. Not 18 months.

Its a tricky one – you mentioned that you have upgraded the parts, do you have the originals still? If so I’d pop them back on and pursue a full refund.

It’s probably more likely that you’ve binned them. In this case I think you would be within your rights to request a partial refund equal to the retail value of a replacement frame.

Essentially you should be in the position to purchase a brand new frame from a different manufacturer that suits you. Realistically there will be additional costs as not all your bits will fit but you may have to suck these up.

Good luck 🙂

I still think you should be taking this up with the retailer not Intense.

You bought the item from them, it’s their job to sort, if that means they have to liaise with the manufacturer then that’s their burden. If the manufacturer/distributor can’t/won’t repair or replace with equivalent (or acceptable) replacement then it’s still up to the retailer to sort you out, and for them to then take it up with their supplier (distributor or manufacturer).

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act#who-should-you-claim-against

amedias is absolutely correct.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I’m wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so – especially in light of his comment about being “in the business”.

I agree that the first port of call is always the retailer where it was purchased from – though if the distributor has engaged with the consumer directly (as it appears in this case) and he hasn’t been explicitly instructed to deal only via an authorised dealer I think it’s fine to discuss this with the distributor. Ultimately the “fix” will come from the Distributor so deal with them directly if possible, the shop plays their part by facilitating the “fix”

Give Citizens Advice a call. Under not so similar circumstances (second hand car with faulty air con) they were extremely helpful.

The basic advice was that you can forget about the warranty. That’s not where your legal rights lay. Your legal rights are under the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

Consider using your legal rights instead

It may be easier to get your money back, a repair or replacement without using your warranty or guarantee.

Find out if it’s easier to use your legal rights on faulty goods instead. It’s usually easier within the first 6 months. You have legal rights for up to 6 years (5 years in Scotland) if there’s a fault.

They even have a themplate letter for you to fill out.

Even if the distributor has engaged with the customer directly, that only becomes relevant if they offer something the OP is happy with. If they can’t then he should still be asking the retailer to sort him out.

Really though, the distributor should be dealing with the retailer , and the retailer with the customer, and only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

This could have been sorted by the retailer fairly early on:

customer: My X has broken
retailer: Oh no! Let me have a chat with our supplier and see if we can provide a replacement or get it repaired.
customer: Excellent, thanks
retailer: I’m afraid we can’t provide a replacement, they don;t make them any more and the only one they have left is the wrong size, I can offer you a refund or this alternative bike/frame Y
customer: I’ll take Y/refund thanks

Retailer then has argument discussion with distributor about either getting a credit or that wrong size replacement for them to sell instead, but the customer should have been sorted out by now.

I know things aren’t always as smooth or quick as that in real life but that is what should happen.

I know of at least one case very very similar to yours where a shop spent a few days ringing round other shops to try and find a frame of the right size still in stock somewhere, and actually ended up buying one in from France from another shop to replace a customers frame. They came to an arrangemnt with the distributor in terms of appropriate credit but the important things is the customer got sorted out with a replacement even when the distributor had nothing appropriate to replace it with.

That’s part and parcel of retail, you take on the responsibilities and administrations of supply and dealing with faults and issues with the products you sell, that is literally the service you’re supplying as a retailer, otherwise people could just buy direct from the manufacturer. If you have issues with certain goods or suppliers you re-evaluate if you want to sell those particular goods in the future as the burden is on you.

Likewise customers choose whether or not to buy goods from a particular retailer based on their service as well as availability of goods, but in most cases the same goods can also be purchased elsewhere. If the customer has issues with the goods then they may decide not to ever buy that brand again, but its the service that will dictate whether or not they buy form that retailer again.

Basically, get the retailer to sort you out, that is their job.

Amedias is spot on – that’s how it should work.
Sometimes the to and fro can be a bit of a bind though so going straight to the source “can” be more efficient!

TBH I don’t think its got to a point to involve citizens advice or Consumer rights. The distributor is not disputing that its a warranty case – it’s just they need to come up with a solution that’s acceptable to all

Because I discovered the crack within 3 days. Not 18 months.

Does your 5 year warranty get less effective as it moves through the term ?

Amedias is spot on – that’s how it should work.
Sometimes the to and fro can be a bit of a bind though so going straight to the source “can” be more efficient!

Absolutely, but that’s the mark of a good retailer vs a poor one. It should never get to the point where it’s more efficient really as that just shows the retailer is letting you down service wise 😉

Don’t forget the retailer can also exceed the minimum requirement if they want. They could offer a refund or alternative before speaking to the distributor, many won’t of course especially, in the bike trade, but it’s common in other areas.

TBH I don’t think its got to a point to involve citizens advice or Consumer rights. The distributor is not disputing that its a warranty case – it’s just they need to come up with a solution that’s acceptable to all

I think this is the crux of it though. It is a warranty case, but if they genuinely can’t supply a replacement then the OP needs to tell the retailer what he wants, and they need to sort him out.
Then let them (retailer) figure out how to come to an agreement with the distributor.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I’m wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so – especially in light of his comment about being “in the business”.

I’m not in the business. I’m in business.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I’m wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so – especially in light of his comment about being “in the business”

I dealt with them directly because I could get the photo to them quicker than sending via the retailer. The retailer is in the loop.

Does your 5 year warranty get less effective as it moves through the term ?

It’s odd how we keep going over this.

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it’s early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It’s the difference between entitled to or not.

If you have to pursue a warranty claim then it’s a whole different chase.

only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

As per.

only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

As per.

[/quote]

But it’s not really happening for you in this case is it…

Its a tricky one – you mentioned that you have upgraded the parts, do you have the originals still? If so I’d pop them back on and pursue a full refund.

It’s probably more likely that you’ve binned them. In this case I think you would be within your rights to request a partial refund equal to the retail value of a replacement frame.

And this exactly is where I am currently. I can request that but it’s likely to be challenged. I’m just currently seeing what is on offer. But it’s slow and painful.

Basically, get the retailer to sort you out, that is their job.

I will but originally the distributor was told a new large frame will be coming at the end of the month. So that would have sorted it.

Only a few days ago did they drop the news on me that they didn’t make/hold stock of the large frame.

But it’s not really happening for you in this case is it…

That’s because Intense have been incredibly slow at responding. It would be even slower with the retailer in the chain.

(they’re in the loop – I jumped the gun by emailing Intense originally because Intense have no warranty registration for the UK. So I emailed Intense and they put the distributor in touch with me.)

The truth that has come out of this thread (and certainly with my experience) is the retailer likes to shift the warranty to something they have no control of. Almost like someone else to blame and you’re all very correct that the retailer(s) should take this on board.

They don’t talk like it’s their problem more a 3rd party that may or may not help you.

Yeah, and sadly a lot of retailers are like that, but all the more reason to remind them of their actual responsibilities. 😉

Anyway, I hope you get sorted OP, it sounds very frustrating.

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it’s early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It’s the difference between entitled to or not.

Yes, because after a while the burden of proof moves to the consumer, but that’s not in doubt in your case. The manufacturer has already accepted that it’s a warranty issue.

Look buddy, do what you want, but don’t think that the retailer and distributor haven’t built dealing with warranty claims into their costs.

Anyway, I hope you get sorted OP, it sounds very frustrating.

I originally banked on getting nothing as I thought they didn’t make the frame any more. I knew this when I purchased it. Hey ho!

Look buddy, do what you want, but don’t think that the retailer and distributor haven’t built dealing with warranty claims into their costs.

Almost certainly but they like hanging on to their frames = profit don’t they!

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Almost sounds like the OP doesn’t want a resolution in his favour.

It’s also starting to sound like a good proportion of the bike industry is heading up its own arse with regards to warranty support.

Except Salsa. Won’t go into details but they really really cared that I was happy.

Leftfield thought – could you just get the frame repaired in the UK? I’ve had one frame repaired to a high standard, including colour-matched paintwork and logos.

Ideally you could get Intense to cover the cost, but even if you didn’t – would you be willing to pay a couple of hundred quid to get back the bike you want to be riding, rather than some other Intense fullsus that you have to resell?

FTR I’m not saying that this is a good reflection of Intense customer service, just that it’s a (non-ideal!) option 🙂

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it’s early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It’s the difference between entitled to or not.

You are entitled.

They have accepted the frame is a warranty job.

That’s done. It’s not in doubt. They have accepted it.

They now have to choose…

1. Repair.
2. Replace.
3. Refund.

As they have said, they can’t do option 1 or option 2
They have to do option 3

You just don’t seem too bothered about them ignoring the terms of their warranty.
Which is fair enough, your choice.

But that’s what you are entitled to.

Almost sounds like the OP doesn’t want a resolution in his favour.

Not at all. I’m just being realistic.

They now have to choose…

1. Repair.
2. Replace.
3. Refund.

As they have said, they can’t do option 1 or option 2
They have to do option 3

You just don’t seem too bothered about them ignoring the terms of their warranty.
Which is fair enough, your choice.

But that’s what you are entitled to.

I don’t see refund listed in their warranty terms?

They can do option 2 sort of by offering me an alternative frame. And then I could say no don’t want it but can I have a refund, but they could say no too.

I understand a refund when the law is your on your side but warranties are about what they offer you not what you can rightfully get.

Surely there is a complete mix up here between what the laws says in terms of consumer rights and what a warranty gives you additionally? That’s how I’ve always read it. I’ve successfully been to small claims twice and done okay so I know the process.

I genuinely am confused how I can legitimately insist on a refund. I understand that I can ask for one which I will do. But this is not the same as dealing with statuary law is it?

Or are we just talking about goodwill?