The Canadians were not perfect (not by any means! There are some examples of real horrors perpetrated against the Natives), but through the system of treaties first implemented under Queen Victoria, were a damn sight better than the Americans.

That’s what the gist of the book was. There was a sort of argument that the Candians under Victora were morally superior to their neigbours in America. But I wonder how long these Canadian treaties would have been honored had there been more Canadian settlers and so more pressure to occupy native land. Might be a phd thesis in that.

In reply to Molegrips – yes a lot of the native tribes did change (eg the horses) and there was a lot of cultural sharing. Syphilis and lacrosse are the only two things that come to mind at the moment, but I’m sure there were more

The popularised ideas of native Americans come from the 19th century, where the frontier was the plains, so plains Indians are what we think of. Across most of the country though they were settled farmers. Read up on the Five Civilised Tribes, they were the well developed societies occuping places like New York and Pennsylvania that the early colonists and pilgrims encountered. Their legal systems heavily inspired the US Constitution, a fact that was played down later as the natives became enemies.

There wasn’t a lot of aggro between them and the Europeans originally; smallpox did for most of them entirely by accident.

they were the well developed societies occuping places like New York and Pennsylvania that the early colonists and pilgrims encountered.

The Iroquois Confederacy is what you are referring to, I think. The whole tradition of the longhouse as a place of legislature and justice was a feature of their society.

Yeah you are right – the five civilized tribes were from the South East, got mixed up. Iroquois were known as the “Five Nations” apparently which is perhaps where I got mixed up.

As an expat canuck living in the UK, I remember clearly when I went back to the homeland after living in the “Old World” for a while.

I flew into Vancouver and was greeted by a lovely Haida sculpture (many peoples, like the different carvers of the NW natives – e.g Haida, Tsimshian etc. – and jewellers/painters of certain southwest peoples – e.g. Navajo, hopi etc. do well off their artworks and craft).

Upon going into a poorer part of Vancouver (Gastown), I was met with many homeless people, often of Native descent. A familiar situation to what you’d see in many downtown Canadian city centres.

Not having developed enzymes to process alcohol in the same way Europeans had meant that it has left a brutal legacy in decimating many communities. I helped a brother of mine a couple of times volunteering in a downtown Toronto soup kitchen in high school where he was a permanent fixture – many tragic tales.

You don’t have to look very far to see the modern effects.

More recently, reports were released of the Canadian government’s use of Native peoples for medical tesing in the 40’s and 50’s:

Canadian Government – many skeletons in the closet.

Had the Europeans set up shop next door and been sympathetic, then I’m sure there would have been a lot of cultural sharing going on.

I thought that was the point I was making.

Have I read up much ? Well not particularly but possibly enough for me to have the opinion that being a hunter-gather probably isn’t a whole bundle of fun compared to more modern alternatives.

Museum of Native American history in DC is superb and heartbreaking

If you get to DC this is the one to see

Followed by the Korean War memorial (do this one in the rain or dusk….)

Then the aerospace museum

possibly enough for me to have the opinion that being a hunter-gather probably isn’t a whole bundle of fun compared to more modern alternatives

Hmm, you’d be surprised. Most of them weren’t hunter gatherers, for starters.

Most of them weren’t hunter gatherers, for starters.

Well if most of them were farmers it does indeed surprise me. I was aware that many Native American societies further south were farmers but I had always understood that in North America most were hunter-gatherers.

Presumably you only discovered this snippet of information in the last 4 hours as earlier you claimed that they had “a stone-age culture”

molgrips – Member

What interests me is that it was effectively a stone-age culture when the Europeans arrived. So those early explorers were effectively time travellers.

Posted 4 hours ago # Report-Post

The culture in the Stone Age period was hunter-gatherer.

EDIT : I stand corrected. I’ve just checked and although Stone Age culture started over 3 million years ago it would appear that some farming had already started in the final period. I would be surprised if farming superseded the need for hunting-gathering completely though.

SaxonRider – Member
So, did you play ‘cowboys and indians’ as a kid? Did you learn anything about the various tribes growing up? Is the subject something of anything more than a passing interest to you?

Yes, we did play ‘cowboys and Indians’.

Yes, we learned they are nearly extinct due to “invasion” just like the aborigines being either breed out or ethnically cleansed …

The modern twist of the North American Indians is that they are now all casino owners and rich beyond their means … 😯

The culture in the Stone Age period was hunter-gatherer.

Well, I said stone age, because they didn’t have metal tools. Of course that’s not saying that their culture was at the exact same devleopmental stage as European culture was when they had stone tools. There’s no reason to think that they would go through identical developmental steps in the same order. They had another another 5,000 years to develop after the European stone age, even though they did it without metal. Nit picking tho innit.

I used to be very interested- I studied the history of the American West for O level history at school (O levels is what we had before GCSEs- before you lived over here!). I’m aware that history lessons aimed at 15 year olds will be over-simplified, but from what I learned, the native Americans were treated very badly.

Well, I said stone age, because they didn’t have metal tools.

But they did extract and extensively use metals including gold, silver, copper, bronze, etc. Did people during what is commonly defined as the Stone Age extract and extensively use metals ? I didn’t think they did.

Did people during what is commonly defined as the Stone Age extract and extensively use metals ? I didn’t think they did.

Well, I’m not a historian, fill your boots 🙂

Apparently there was copper and some iron in the north east.

Well, I’m not a historian, fill your boots

Yes I was aware of Native American skills in metalwork, what with the fabled city of El Dorado and all that. I was asking if people during what is commonly defined as the ‘Stone Age’ extracted and extensively used metals as I didn’t think they did.

I was under the impression that the stone age ended with metals useful for making sharp edged tools, like bronze; gold and the like don’t count.

Bit off topic now though.

Otzi the iceman had a copper axe, pretty daft material for a sharp edged tool eh ?

I’ve had a long-time interest in First Nations art and storytelling, in particular the art of the Pacific North-west, The Tlingit, Haida, and Kwakiutl tribes in particular. I’ve been following a Fb page of clothing designs which are based on Haida art, really nice dramatic designs too.
I have a tattoo of Kokopeli, the Anasazi jester spirit, riding a mountain bike as well. 😀

The USA is more famous for trying to destroy the First Nations, but Canada gave it a good go until 1996 at least:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system