Anyone got one?

Thoughts?

Have the 2013 AC 650b…

Had a 2009/10 AC 26″ until about 2 weeks ago

I’ve the 29″ version, sorry…. Isn’t 26″ dead yet ? 😆

Can’t be bothered with slightly different wheel sizes after 25 years on 26″ and definitely don’t want the big expense that goes with a whole new wheelset. Would be very interested in your opinions on the ride, build and weights etc.

Cheers

I was also on 26″ since 1987 until I demod the Helius AC 29r, and was a total 29″ sceptic…..

Mine weighs in at 28.5 lbs with reverb, arch ex, 3×10 xtr, nobby nics and revelation rct 140 forks.

Build quality is unbeatable by any other vendor IMO. My frame has been serviced this week after 13 months of continuous use and gravity reported the bearings and bushes were as new….

The frame is stiff as, and true as. I can not fault the bike whatsoever other than the fashion has progressed to shorter rear stays and slacker ha but mine is perfect as is , albeit my new fireline demonstrates the benefit of newer geometry…

A Helius AC (of any wheel dimension) is the only bike I’d consider selling my current bike* for.

*Helius CC

As TLR has already replied.

Had my last one for nearly 3 years,replaced the lower main pivot about 2 months ago.

Very stiff frames amd the finish is amazing,perfect welds.

Newer frame suits me even better, Longer TT and slacker HA makes it even more fun,Very playfull and fun to ride.

This is my 5th Nicolai.

My 650b Pinion AC is 31.5lbs,My mate also has one running XX1 and that is 27lbs.Both are running Reverbs aswell.

Thanks folks. I am choosing my next frame based on geometry/build quality and as far as I can see there are only a few manufacturers that come up with the goods with Nicolai being top.

I didn’t realise they could be built so light, not that I am bothered too much about weight but it’s nice not to be too far north of 30-31 lbs for all day in the mountains with a sturdy build.

I am particularly interested in the slack head angle as my last 2 bikes have been 66.something degrees and I find that really helpful for the stuff I ride. Hopefully the head angle will stay slack when run at 150mm (revelations)rather than 160mm.

Sticking with 26″ though as everything from my current build will go straight on so that will save a lot of cash.

Going to be a great summer of riding when it arrives!

Nicolaisam – is the Pinion frame heavier than the regular AC?

The Pinion works out heavier as the Gearbox unit is heavier than 2×10.

No idea why gearboxes are in favour now we have xx1…..

Sam, yours has failed already, no ?

nicolaisam – pics please. I have been toying with one of these since the adoption of pinion boxes by Nic’. One thing that gets me is the idler chain guide thing…

would love to hear some real world feedback.

I wouldn’t worry too much about a 66degree head angle. 66, 67, 68 its all going to feel more or less the same. The other variables like BB height and wheelbase are more likely to change the feel and stability at speed. My old Helius AM ran at the same geometry as the new AC does and that was great even at alpine speed. I was happily keeping up with guys on DH bikes over fast rocky tracks.

TLR-Had issues with the 1st Pinion,was sorted very quickly,have 200 miles on it since then.

Now about XX1,My mate has the same bike as me but without the Pinion,he is running the XX1 on his and i have done about 5 miles on it,Things i noticed,Massive gaps between gears,After running my Pinion its very very slow to change gear.
I found lots of times where you felt that you needed and inbetween gear to keep your Cadence at a nice level.
.

I wouldn’t worry too much about a 66degree head angle. 66, 67, 68 its all going to feel more or less the same. The other variables like BB height and wheelbase are more likely to change the feel and stability at speed. My old Helius AM ran at the same geometry as the new AC does and that was great even at alpine speed. I was happily keeping up with guys on DH bikes over fast rocky tracks.

Guess it’s all personal preference but for me and everyone I ride with there is a massive difference between head angles and 68 isn’t in the same postcode at 66. My last 2 bikes had 66.2 and 66.5 head angles and they felt fantastic on the super steep slow technical stuff up here.

I’ve the 29″ version, sorry…. Isn’t 26″ dead yet ?

No because all signs point to 26 inch bikes being faster in world cup XC races and downhill events.

I’m glad you bought into the hype though.

Also, 26ers are wai waai more fun. I don’t give a **** about roll over ability, what I want is a bike that I can easily pre-jump rock sections with, run wide wiiiide rims and run giant 2.4 inch tyre’s without feeling as though I’m riding a tank.

29ers are just boring slow clown wagons in that respect and the 650b specific bike I rode felt like it added nothing to the ride quality whilst compromising it’s handling in the air and it’s ability to be manualed or go airbourne in the first place. In fact my gut instinct said the increased weight of the wheels affected the performance of the suspension and negated any additional traction gained by the larger diameter wheels.

Basically 29ers and 650b bikes are for middle aged golfing mincers, as are carbon bikes.

Guess it’s all personal preference but for me and everyone I ride with there is a massive difference between head angles and 68 isn’t in the same postcode at 66. My last 2 bikes had 66.2 and 66.5 head angles and they felt fantastic on the super steep slow technical stuff up here.

Quoted HA means nothing until it’s built as fork & headset choice will change it. Most people I have met couldn’t tell blind 1 degree difference. The fine setup detail of a full sus and the preferred riding position will also have a big impact. At times it’s up there with premium hdmi cables..

i was a total 29″ sceptic…………….until i spent a weekend riding a helius ac 29er demo bike from gravity sports………..

funnily enough, so are most people until they spend time on 29″.

horses for courses…….but 26″ has a shelf life IMO.

IMO 29ers have a shelf life, they’re **** boring to ride, they handle like crap in the air, they’re unwieldy in tight technical downhills, direction changes are less quick, acceleration is less quick…etc etc ad nauseum……in summary totally and utterly boring to ride and they’ve been losing endurance XC races for christ sake (the whole point they were invented)….they haven’t taken off anywhere near as much as the manufactures/mags would have us believe!

29ers are basically only good for people who’s ability to ride extends to pointing the bike at the scary bits and hanging on for their lives – if you like to throw the bike around they suck massive warty donkey balls.

expensive for an aluminium frame.

some-one has to say it. 🙂

Please turn this into a 29vs26 discussion, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of those on here.

Lol, keep flogging your donkey bwaarp and I’ll tend to the thoroughbred…. 😯

lol not agreeing that 26 is dead but it does make it hard with bwaarp on your side….

I’m right, you lot are all wrong.

So there.

Guess it’s all personal preference

At the speeds you’ll be riding and with one or two degrees difference, it really doesn’t

If the ground is steep and technical then realistically a slack head angle is going to make the bike harder to ride in my experience. The slack angle makes the bike more stable at speed but slower to respond at low speeds making steering in slow situations harder to control. As long as your weight is in the right place on the bike the steering angle, within reason, I,e, between 66 and 68, isn’t going to make a massive difference and may make it harder.

I rode my old Helius AM, which is effectively the same geometry as the new AC (so 67.5 HA) pretty much at the limit of what it’s designed for including steep technical UK DH tracks (e.g. Egypt and Super Tavi) and fast rocky alpine tracks.

My new AM is quite a bit slacker but the steering feels the same. I had it lowered by quite a margin and its longer in the wheel base and that’s the bike feels better balanced.

Wheelbase and BB height combined with front centre and chain stay lengths make more of a difference than one or two degrees in the HA I think,

At the speeds you’ll be riding and with one or two degrees difference, it really doesn’t

Classic!

You realy think 2 degrees of ha doesn’t make any difference? Never heard that one before!

I think its discernible if you’re a keen rider sensitive to set up. But for most people especially on a trail bike that wont be ridden much if at all above 20 mph no I don’t think it makes much difference. There are many trends in our sport that start out because they give some benefit to the rider. Slackening HA is one example. When the trend started the avg HA on a trail bike was around 70 degrees. Then fork travel got longer and HA raked out and that was a good thing. When they reached 67 degrees they got to be more or less optimum (along with sub 14″ BB) but the trend continued, mimicking that in the DH bike world where the pros are riding bikes with 62 and 63 degree HAs. That works for them but then their ground speed is routinely up to and over 30mph (peak speed). Trail bikes don’t get ridden by the average rider much above 20 mph and that is still pretty quick even for your average rider.

The idea that you need a trail bike with what was once DH bike geometry (circa 2006) is not entirely fanciful but to discount a bike because the HA is 67.5 not 66 probably is. Yes that is a substantial difference and yes I think you might notice it but I don’t think it would make much if any difference, I.e you won’t be held back by it.

Besides you’re saying the ground you ride is routinely steep and slow and technical. A super slack HA bike isn’t the ideal bike for that as it will make steering it tricky at the slow speeds you’ll be riding.

Bike geometry is a lot more than one measurement. It’s all of them taken together in relation to each other. If you had a bike with a 66 degree HA, a 14.2″ BB (+25mm over axles), 1050mm wheelbase and 150mm of travel its going to ride like a dog compared to one with 67.5HA, 13.3″ BB (+5mm over axles), 1150mm wheelbase and the same travel.

^^^^^^^

That is spot on and why we ride Nicolai…….

I think its discernible if you’re a keen rider sensitive to set up. But for most people especially on a trail bike that wont be ridden much if at all above 20 mph no I don’t think it makes much difference. There are many trends in our sport that start out because they give some benefit to the rider. Slackening HA is one example. When the trend started the avg HA on a trail bike was around 70 degrees. Then fork travel got longer and HA raked out and that was a good thing. When they reached 67 degrees they got to be more or less optimum (along with sub 14″ BB) but the trend continued, mimicking that in the DH bike world where the pros are riding bikes with 62 and 63 degree HAs. That works for them but then their ground speed is routinely up to and over 30mph (peak speed). Trail bikes don’t get ridden by the average rider much above 20 mph and that is still pretty quick even for your average rider.

The idea that you need a trail bike with what was once DH bike geometry (circa 2006) is not entirely fanciful but to discount a bike because the HA is 67.5 not 66 probably is. Yes that is a substantial difference and yes I think you might notice it but I don’t think it would make much if any difference, I.e you won’t be held back by it.

Besides you’re saying the ground you ride is routinely steep and slow and technical. A super slack HA bike isn’t the ideal bike for that as it will make steering it tricky at the slow speeds you’ll be riding.

Bike geometry is a lot more than one measurement. It’s all of them taken together in relation to each other. If you had a bike with a 66 degree HA, a 14.2″ BB (+25mm over axles), 1050mm wheelbase and 150mm of travel its going to ride like a dog compared to one with 67.5HA, 13.3″ BB (+5mm over axles), 1150mm wheelbase and the same travel

This thred, which is asking for opinions on the 2013 Helius AC 26″ has descended into slanging matches about wheel size and condescendingly pointless lectures about geometry and personal riding ability! Yes I ride slow, steep and very technical stuff but I also ride just about everything else including mountains, downhill courses and alpine like secret trails. Not surprisingly some of this stuff I ride quite fast.

After 25 years of obsessive MTBing I like to think of myself as pretty sensitive to setup. Extensive experimentation over the past few years with loads of different bikes, setups and geometry shows me that for now I get on really well with slack mountain bikes.

Along with build quality that’s why I ended up choosing a Nicolai Helius AC 26″ for my next bike.

So it doesn’t really matter how much you know about the mathematics of riding or wheel size or how much you underestimate me as a rider, I am only really interested in people’s experience of the 2013 Helius AC please!

I am only really interested in people’s experience of the 2013 Helius AC please!

Must be a short list so far. Sorry if comments about ha were out of place just seems to be one of the most thrown around numbers in the world these days. Nicolai is up there on my all time want list just need to get through a couple more before hitting the one to keep forever. ..

bwaarp your my hero, let the let the XC wendy’s have their cumbersome fad-wagons so they can shred the gnarr down their local canal path.

Duir.
In your last post you say you ride slow but by the end of the same sentence you now claim you ride fast.

Make your mind up.

If it matters, I ride 29.

Flatfish what do you not understand? Or are you just picking works out,

I ride slow, steep and very technical stuff but I also ride just about everything else including mountains, downhill courses and alpine like secret trails. Not surprisingly some of this stuff I ride quite fast.

He rides steep tech stuff slow and rides downhill mountain stuff fast.

I can relate to what he means.

What fork are planning to run on it Duir?

The AC is designed for 150mm forks like Rev’s or 32’s (and 160mm 34’s I guess). If you like speed and “gnar” then perhaps a Lyrik/36/55 fork would be better suited? I have some Rev’s but I much prefer running 36’s and 55’s due to the increased stiffness (I’ve never tried the Rev on the AM as really don’t think it would fit with how I ride it; it’s merely okay on my hartail although I have broken one on it 😈 ). On an AC running a longer fork would slacken it off a tad (and raise the bottom bracket which is not always a good thing).

Have you considered an AM (or Ion 16) which are designed for the longer fork? On paper the new AC is very similar geometry to the older AM but the AM is designed for the longer and stiffer forks. The AM is a more weighty frame but it’s designed for a harder style of riding… a proper AM bike rather than a trail bike with AM like angles.

There are a few folk around who have built AM’s to under 30lbs 😉

2013 AC rated for forks up to 160mm. I’m running 150mm 44 Rc3ti on mine along with a Pinion box.

First week of riding on it in Cumbria this week. I reckon the AC us the perfect lakes bike – cleared the biggest climbs and stormed the big descents on the borrowdale Bash. Mine is an XL at just under 15kg. Conventional gearing under 14kg and a lighter fork is easy

2013 AC rated for forks up to 160mm

Good 😛

The axle to crown geometry figures for the AC are for a 539mm fork which is a 160mm Fox 34 fork (538mm). Fox 36 160mm are 545mm axle to crown (Lyrik and 55 are 170mm forks at 555mm, Fox 36 180’s are 565mm).

I know it’s only 7mm but it’s an intent thing rather than a measurement thing. AM and Ion show geometry at 545mm axle to crown, and 66deg head angle as the OP mentioned 🙂 .

I’m sure an AC would be awesome with some 160mm 36 Floats on the front… 😉

So it doesn’t really matter how much you know about the mathematics of riding or wheel size or how much you underestimate me as a rider, I am only really interested in people’s experience of the 2013 Helius AC please!

Ok first off an apology Duir. I didn’t intend for it to descent to the level your citing.

My opinion of a 2013 AC, which is to all intents and purposes identical to the 2009 AMmi owned for three years is that it rides brilliantly down slow technical terrain and fast alpine descents. You’ll love it. I promise.

Duir.
In your last post you say you ride slow but by the end of the same sentence you now claim you ride fast.

Not really trying to prove anything on this thred about my abilities just get input on the new AC. The post you are refering to was my claraification of the original post

My last 2 bikes had 66.2 and 66.5 head angles and they felt fantastic on the super steep slow technical stuff up here.

I think some people misunderstood this as that’s how I ride all day. What I mean is I really like to ride technical and steep stuff and I personally find a slack HA helps with that. In the later post I clearing that up by saying I also like to ride lot’s of other stuff (anything in fact) so the new Nicolai will be used slowly, medium and extra fast as well!! Owing to the fact that I am not in competition with any of you and will most likely never ride with you I am very confused as to why my speed or lack of it would bother you in the slightest?!

Make your mind up.

Ok first off an apology Duir. I didn’t intend for it to descent to the level your citing.

My opinion of a 2013 AC, which is to all intents and purposes identical to the 2009 AMmi owned for three years is that it rides brilliantly down slow technical terrain and fast alpine descents. You’ll love it. I promise.

Sorry from me too, didn’t mean to sound grumpy, being woken up every 3 hrs for 6 weeks by my new baby may have made me a bit touchy!! Thanks for the input, I already ordered the bike, I think I just want people to tell me how great they are while I am on nappy patrol awaiting the AC’s arrival.

What fork are planning to run on it Duir?

The AC is designed for 150mm forks like Rev’s or 32’s (and 160mm 34’s I guess). If you like speed and “gnar” then perhaps a Lyrik/36/55 fork would be better suited? I have some Rev’s but I much prefer running 36’s and 55’s due to the increased stiffness (I’ve never tried the Rev on the AM as really don’t think it would fit with how I ride it; it’s merely okay on my hartail although I have broken one on it ). On an AC running a longer fork would slacken it off a tad (and raise the bottom bracket which is not always a good thing).

Have you considered an AM (or Ion 16) which are designed for the longer fork? On paper the new AC is very similar geometry to the older AM but the AM is designed for the longer and stiffer forks. The AM is a more weighty frame but it’s designed for a harder style of riding… a proper AM bike rather than a trail bike with AM like angles.

There are a few folk around who have built AM’s to under 30lbs

I think it’s designed around a slightly longer fork than the revelations 150mm I will be running. I have thought of 160’s and will most likely get a set eventually to have in reserve for Alps trip’s or for when my Makulu is just too much bike. For now what I am trying to create with this build is a bike that can be hammered without having to go 160. So lightish and slack but very tough. The AC stood out as it’s geometry looked spot on and very similar to my current bike especially the 66.5 HA. My current bike has a bottom bracket height that is just a bit too high for the slack HA even with offset bushings so I wanted to improve on that. I had mistakenly thought the AC was built around the revelations so will probably just use an external headset lower cup and that should give me the correct HA and BB

2013 AC rated for forks up to 160mm. I’m running 150mm 44 Rc3ti on mine along with a Pinion box.

First week of riding on it in Cumbria this week. I reckon the AC us the perfect lakes bike – cleared the biggest climbs and stormed the big descents on the borrowdale Bash. Mine is an XL at just under 15kg. Conventional gearing under 14kg and a lighter fork is easy

That’s great to hear. I ride quite often in T’Lakes with Max and you know how he rides and the kind of things he rides down on his Nicolai! I anticipate a 31lbs ish build with the stuff I have on my Devinci as the Devinci is just about the same weight. To me though, 31lbs is perfectly acceptable because I want it fit for purpose for the majority of my riding which is NE Scotland and the Lakes.

Anyway could have afforded any frame (carbon etc) but the only bikes with the geometry I wanted were the Helius AC, Banshee Spitfire and Specialized Enduro. To me there was simply no contest.

Sure hope it’s here in time for a great summer of riding………can’t wait!