That may well be true AA

And for education we could also insert NHS

I believe that the issues are less to do with political dogma, and more to do with the enormous costs involved to provide these services to the level that we would all really like (though very few would actually be willing to pay for) – and the reluctance of both politicians and the public in general to grasp what is a very painful nettle in that spending choices have to be made regardless of who sits in 10 Downing Street

Education spending has remained pretty constant at between 4-5% of GDP throughout my lifetime, we have lots of initiatives, different types of exams, and governments who place enducation at the heart of their core commitments – are we better or worse at educating our kids?

If we are calling for spending more money then we better make sure that we are good at spending it….

Education spending has remained pretty constant at between 4-5% of GDP throughout my lifetime,

Really. Difference between 4 and 5% of GDP is **** massive though. What you are saying is that education spending fluctuated by 20% as linked to GDP are you not?

Good job it wasn’t between 1 and 2% then AA, eh? Imagine that….

Just reading this thread… Jesus there are ideas and no idea. Leave it to people who know and have worked in the education sector instead of opinionated Goves people.

I’m one of two physics teachers.
The other has more experience, higher degree, better at maths and yet their students do better in my lessons.

Why?
The other teacher lacks people skills and goes in with guns blazing confusing everyone including me.
I make it easier to understand/relate/fun and once my students can flap, I let them fly by themselves.

I can teach 3 different A’ levels no problemo and 5 different GCSE’s. Have been told not to chuck it in, but I can’t work 6/7 days a week without a divorce or burn out.

I’m voting Tory when I leave hahaha! 😈
Academies for all: so we have unqualified £16K teachers… Your children are doomed lol

Serious note, better systems, less paperwork and more money injected into wages/kids = sorted.

I can teach 3 different A’ levels no problemo

Really? I struggled at 2 and one of those was environmental science!

Oh the ironing…

Under immigration rules that come into force next month, skilled workers – including teachers – from non-EU countries will need to earn at least £35,000 to remain in the UK permanently.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/29/teachers-abroad-packing-recruitment-crisis-losing-staff

Thisisnotaspoon: £50k+ in engineering before you’re 30 “without breaking a sweat”?! Nonsense. I’d suggest that’s the exception rather than the rule unless one works in certain parts of the world on contract, but that’s still not the norm. The job you linked to is in waste water treatment, and a stab in the dark at £60k is, IMO way too high. Unless the jobs are contract work with high day or hourly rates, £50k is a huge ask under 30.

If you’re a hiring manager, can I have a job please?

Speaking with the many teachers I know, the money’s not the main issue (as many teachers on here have said) and it’s the terms and constant goal-post moving and testing which ups the workload and makes the profession feel undervalued and undermined.

Thisisnotaspoon: £50k+ in engineering before you’re 30 “without breaking a sweat”?! Nonsense. I’d suggest that’s the exception rather than the rule unless one works in certain parts of the world on contract, but that’s still not the norm. The job you linked to is in waste water treatment, and a stab in the dark at £60k is, IMO way too high. Unless the jobs are contract work with high day or hourly rates, £50k is a huge ask under 30.

I think the ‘£50k before you are 30’ jobs are out there in the right sectors..

So….
I’m 43 and retrained at 30ish..(Engineering degree) which finished 10 years ago.
I’ve been in my job 9 years (Project manager – Engineering – Defence sector – manufacturing)
I travel a bit for work, and do a few early starts, but rarely take work home. I’ve got a company car (£25k Passat), a laptop, mobile phone, healthcare, etc.
I get bonuses, based on our dept performance – not loads but circa £5k p/a over the last 3 years.

My wife is 40. She has been teaching for 16 years. She is a secondary school science teacher (Biology + life Sciences) She is also training to be the SENCo (special needs co-ordinator)
She is out of the house for 12 hours a day, and generally works at home most evenings. + weekends.
She has a work laptop.

Guess who earns more…

oh and –

Speaking with the many teachers I know, the money’s not the main issue (as many teachers on here have said) and it’s the terms and constant goal-post moving and testing which ups the workload and makes the profession feel undervalued and undermined.

This is a big part of the problem..

or you could be earning £50k+ doing engineering before you’re 30 without breaking too much of a sweat.

Ridiculous! I work for a leading engineering consultancy and I can categorically tell you that the number under-30s earning 50k in our office of 250 is zero. I’m pretty sure that across the entire UK staff of about 6000 that it would still be zero. There aren’t even that many 40 year olds earning that much.

Ridiculous! I work for a leading engineering consultancy and I can categorically tell you that the number under-30s earning 50k in our office of 250 is zero. I’m pretty sure that across the entire UK staff of about 6000 that it would still be zero. There aren’t even that many 40 year olds earning that much.

Really? well I must be better paid than I thought then!
All the project managers in my office are on high £40k’s/low £50k’s – inc the lad who has just turned 30.

Yes… but has your car got heated wing mirrors? Eh?

Oh how the other half live….

There aren’t even that many 40 year olds earning that much.

All our Engineers over 40, are on more than £50k. Mind you, this is the SE, so you still couldn’t get a mortgage on a rabbit hutch….

Engineering is big discipline, but 50k isn’t that special in certain industries. Most people I know by mid 30’s were above 50k and some by 40 around the 6 figure mark.

I didn’t say STEM workers earn less than teachers. I said that a 50 grand job in engineering under the age of 30 if you’re not contracting is unusual, which IME is (yes, I have an engineering degree. Yes, I’ve worked in more than one sector. No, I’ve never been a contractor but have worked with my fair share. Yes I know people who work abroad, both permanently and on contract. No, I don’t know what your point is, especially as you haven’t actually said what you earn…). You’re also a fair bit older than 30, so I’d imagine your previous experience counts in there somewhere.

Dragon, you must move in more salubrious circles than me and dazh then.

Binners – that made me do an actual LOL. Thank you.

Our chem eng grads, once chartered, earn an average of £56000- pretty reasonable to attain chartership by 30. (I don’t have such stats to hand for other fields)

My other half is an ex-teacher (primary school, quit late last year). My cousin, who loved teaching, is now an ex-primary school teacher as of January this year. My aunt (secondary school) has just taken early retirement at 55. That’s just the people I know who’ve quit within the last year. The profession is dying on its feet.

It isn’t about the money, it’s about the workload. My other half quit because we’re thinking of having kids and – based on what her colleagues who had kids told her – she didn’t want to have a child who never got to see her, and who only saw her tired and in a bad mood. She was putting in 12-13 hour days 5-6 days per week and was just living half-term to half-term. I think my cousin’s reasons were along the same line.

About the only thing related to teaching that’s given her a smile recently was Nicky Morgan getting heckled. She must have watched that clip about 10 times.

Most people I know by mid 30’s were above 50k and some by 40 around the 6 figure mark.

But how big are their penises? Honestly, I read stuff like this and have a good laugh. Up here in the uncultured north 50k is a pretty big salary. The only people earning that at my place are senior project managers and team leaders, which is a grade 7 on a 2 to 9 scale where 2 is a 21 year old graduate and 9 a director with 20+ years of experience. There are no under 30s I know of on a grade 7, and very few under 40s. Or are these silly figures people are quoting contract based jobs? If so then 50k is not much to shout about.

All I know is you can earn more and have better lifestyle working in a factory without qualifications vs. teaching.

Must admit I’ve worked a bit over half term!