Been asked to decide if I want the jab today. I am not sure, never had the normal flu jab before. My collegues are 50/50. Anyone else in the NHS had to decide what to do? Anyone have any good sources of information to make this decision?

Thanks

as an asthmatic who doesn't usually bother getting a flu jab, I've been wondering the same thing!

Ummm, mild asthma here too. Getting exposed to suspected cases nearly everyday at work. Surely I would have got it by now if I was going to?

you're all going to die! (I've had it so HA!)

I don't for the usual seasonal flu, but for this one I will.

HAd the seasonal jab today, not frontline enough to be offered the SF one (best to see how the front liners react first!)

Have heard its more No to yes and Pharmacys saying no in London
So for me nope thank you

But why yes and why no? How have you decided?

No, because I don't trust a mass untested vaccine. Surely no one knows any potential side effects yet. Also swine flu isn’t a bad illness so I see no serious need for it. I'm not an NHS worker.

Had the seasonal jab but the Swine flu one……………….nah, insufficient data!!!!!

MrsGrahamS is.

She's a doctor, she's diabetic and she is pregnant – so she ticks all the risk factors.

Midwife told us they are currently seeing around one pregnant lady a week with swine flu. Most recover fine with no obvious trauma to the baby or lasting damage to mother, though she'd had one woman end up in intensive care for two weeks with kidney failure (I think).

We've not seen any real reason not to take it.

Had the seasonal jab but the Swine flu one……………….nah, insufficient data!!!!!

They reformulate the seasonal jab every year to deal with whatever flu is hitting that season. The seasonal flu jab will get far less testing than the swine flu jab has had, which is essentially just a standard seasonal flu vaccine with the H1N1 strain in it anyway.

My moral concern is getting it myself from work and taking it home, infecting a family member / friend who does not fair very well from it. Not really worried about getting it myself, but concerned about giving it to others. Am I thinking about it too much?

Am I thinking about it too much?

Nope, sounds sensible to me, especially if you are an NHS worker and possibly in contact with immunocompromised patients.

They reformulate the seasonal jab every year to deal with whatever flu is hitting that season. The seasonal flu jab will get far less testing than the swine flu jab has had, which is essentially just a standard seasonal flu vaccine with the H1N1 strain in it anyway
Same thing, really. I'm just not convinced sufficient testing has been done on the H1N1 strain.

I'm going to have it.

I've looked after 5 cases so far on ITU, one has died. I don't have the normal flu jab, and have had proper flu once last year which left me out of it for two weeks.

It's more about not wanting to take it home, and about being available to work if I need to.

Same thing, really. I'm just not convinced sufficient testing has been done on the H1N1 strain.

They've basically done all the testing they can for now. They already had a great deal of information about H1N1 flu viruses going right back to the 1918 flu outbreak. The already had a great deal of information about the effects of seasonal flu vaccines. And they already re-formulate those vaccines on a seasonal basis.

The only further study they can really do is wait 20 years to see if there are any side effects.

If you are that worried, then I'd question why you had the "untested" seasonal vaccine?

Crikey, If you have been in such high contact areas, is it right to assume you could have developed some natural immunity? Or do you think the masks have limited your exposure.

I have undoubtedly been exposed to the virus, and exposed to people who are critically ill because of it. It's less about my immunity, if it is that rather than good infection control, and rather more about not exposing others to the illness.

It seems to be a one of two things; either a mild illness, or a very serious one, the seriousness seems to depend on host factors, ie if you are or have been pregnant, or if you have some other predisposing factor, it can make you very, very ill indeed.

I'll have the vaccine, less for me, more for those I contact.

is it right to assume you could have developed some natural immunity?

(Not a doctor but..) Surely you can't develop natural immunity without actually catching it first?

I suppose you may be infected and not feel any effects from it, but you'd still have caught it and possibly pass it on to someone who may feel much, much worse.

i'm going to be supporting the roll out of the vaccine around my way (not in a clinical fashion -merely dogsbody) and feeling from that area is people should have it, but most nurses and docs i've spoke to away from that specific environment feel it is theres a lack of testing. I believe the quoted timeframe has been one month. I might be mistaken but i have lead to believe it is different in makeup from the normal vaccine. I will be offered it and i feel i will decline, i just intend to be amazingly stringent on the hand washing and the like. Will be more relaxed than the environment "Crikey" seems to work in.

I believe because this strain is so far mutated from the standard strains that no one has any resistance to it and hence why the problems and so natural immunity isn't going to happen, it might just be some people will have stronger immune systems.

The problem that I have, and others in similar positions, is that we come into contact with people with all kinds of respiratory illnesses, from TB through PCP, 'straightforward' pneumonia and so on.

The decision to test for swine flu is a clinical one, we're not screening for it, so a number of people will present with it and not be picked up for a couple of days or longer.

What this means in practice is that I will be exposed to the virus until I take precautions to avoid it; I'm not wearing a filter mask for everyone I encounter who has a cough…

I'm booked in for it monday, I've always had the seasonal flu jab on the grounds that I just loathe being ill, so if it reduces my chances it's worth a punt. As has been said, if you have the seasonal flu jab I can't see much difference in terms of test data etc… I'm an A&E charge nurse, and probably been for a bit too long, I'm struggling to be that fussed about it really.

jd, these are odd questions to be asking for someone who works in the nhs, esp if you're 'getting exposed' every day and moreso if you've got an outstanding respiratory complaint. i have one colleague with assume and for sure she's going to take it.

me, no but mainly because i've already ahd it and as a result get treated like some sort swine flu canary. i will have the seasonal flu jag tho

I'm having mine next week. I work in both hospital and community settings so my risk of exposure is fairly high. As all of my patients are smokers, and therefore have a relatively poor resistance to respiratory-affecting pathogens, it's in their interest too, particularly as they normally have a reduced immune function as a result of quitting.

As an added note, I was doing some promotional work in the street a couple of weeks ago and some crackpot pounced on me with a handful of leaflets detailing how Swine flu is a man-made virus. He was trying to convince me that the vaccine is a method of depopulisation, developed by our government to address our ever-expanding population. Bonkers!

Probably will, as for not being tested it's based on the same process as the annual one just with a different strain.

Swiss – not odd questions to ask when so many people in 'informed' positions etc ITU consultants are choosing not to have it.

My exposure is for very short periods of time and it is not the people who you know have it who are a concern (like crikey). It is all the people we get exposed to then get told at a later date they are SF cases.

My collegues keep laughing at me asking people to cover their mouth when coughing – why are there so many of them!

isn't there a lot of suggestion that h1n1 "has been genetically-manufactured as a military biological warfare weapon." Man-made at least. ??

H1N1 Virus: Manufactured or Result of “Human Error”?

In my opinion, any health worker who doesn't understand the impact of not having the Swine Flu vaccine should be questioning why they are working in that profession.

Despite too much media hype, Swine Flu is unfortunately very real and very infectious and not like normal seasonal flu, but most importantly it is very dangerous to pregnant mothers and people with respiratory conditions – unsurprisingly these people tend to visit hospitals!

I can speak from experience having contracted the dreaded illness from a visiting friend. I'd consider myself very fit and healthy, I'm 30 and have never been sick for more than a couple of days in my life, I have no underlying health conditions and up until recently I've been playing football twice a week and cycling as well.

The first week of the flu was like a normal flu, but this quickly developed into a chronic lung condition resulting in breathing difficulties, including laryngospasms (2-3 per night for a week). Over 2 months later and I still can't exercise without wanting to throw up due to the bottom of my lungs still being irritated. I consider myself lucky, because I know a lot of people who have asthma who may not have survived it.

If you have been caught up in the media nonsense about the safety of vaccines then I'd suggest you read this article: [/url] and see if your conscience can handle the possibility of killing an unborn child and mother because you can't be assed getting a simple jab – and for those who say "I'd rather my own immune system fought it naturally" – maybe try and find out how vaccinations work before talking nonsense?

Hagi, all flu viruses can do that to you, took me months to recover fully from flu when I caught it about 10 years ago now.

I never have the seasonal flu virus and wont be having the swine flu one.

I am not in any at risk group nor a high risk part of the profession

I and the kids are getting it in next couple of weeks supposedly – got a call from docs – as my wife has an immune deficiency (although she doesn't get it).

Hagi – so that us loosing 50% of NHS staff??

We all have the right to make an informed choice and consider our beliefs. Personally I have to be 100% convinced about using any pharmaceutical produces.

make an informed choice

You've hit the nail on the head there, but I'm not sure why you are asking on a mountain biking forum? How are you planning on making your informed choice:

Tabloid speculation about the safety of vaccines?
Ask a nurse or doctor (who themselves have studied immunology and pharmacology for less than 6 months each unless they are a specialist in immunology or virology)?

Or maybe you should do some research, here I'll help you:

BMJ article highlighting the benefits of vaccinating healthcare workers.

Article discussing the benefits of vaccination.

Same again here.

US Gov website about the myths around flu vaccines.

What exactly is it stopping you getting this vaccine? Surely with your informed opinion you'll have some scientific evidence of deaths/sickness/deformities/mutations/freak alien attacks as a direct result of people taking vaccines in the last 20 years? But then I guess there are only a few hundred million given out each year so thats maybe not a big enough sample size?

Sorry if I'm sounding like an ass, but if one of your close relatives died because somebody couldn't be bothered to take 10mins out of their day and get a simple jab because of some tripe they'd read in the national press then you'd presumably be more than a little p!ssed off.

They already had a great deal of information about H1N1 flu viruses going right back to the 1918 flu outbreak.

Indeed 'they' have , but as an attenuated vaccine? A couple of Virologist colleagues aren't entirely happy about it.

Hagi – I agree 100%

I have no choice but to have it as the wife has chronic brittle asthma, bronchiectasis and almost no immune system, but even if this were not the case……

odds of getting swine flu and having serious complications?

vs

odds of getting complications from a dead virus in a vaccine produced via a well tested method?

I'll take the vaccine thanks.

Cant believe NHS proffessionals are considering not taking it, it is unbelievable stupidity!

The whole point of vaccinating is to build up herd immunity, surely you should be setting an example to the public, and maybe learning a bit about the Virus and Vaccinations generally????

What exactly is it stopping you getting this vaccine?

Personal choice. No matter how much research there is to support something if a person doesn't want to have the jab it's their choice.

Cant believe NHS proffessionals are considering not taking it, it is unbelievable stupidity!

No it's not, why should we have to take it?

Personal choice. No matter how much research there is to support something if a person doesn't want to have the jab it's their choice.

Indeed, it is personal choice, not so for some states in the US. If you are front-line staff, then you are morally obliged to immunise yourself. The vaccine is freely available, and H1N1 is proven to be more virulent than normal seasonal flu and has already killed several people – given these facts and the evidence I've shown you above that vaccination programs such as these are clinically proven to save lives, I fail to see why you wouldn't take the vaccine (unless you have a known allergy)?

No it's not, why should we have to take it?

See above, its not for your good, its for the good of others, probably the reason you joined the healthcare profession in the first place (I'm assuming you are in the healthcare profession)?

I'm still waiting for somebody to give me some good evidence of why you wouldn't take it. I'd also like to know how many of these 'objectors' have taken a vaccine before going on holiday, despite the fact that considerably less of the global population would have received these and hence the risks higher?

If it really is 50/50 over NHS workers taking the jabs, then I hope a large proportion of that 50% aren't front-line staff, otherwise I'm honestly staggered by peoples self-centeredness.

No it's not, why should we have to take it?

because you deal with at risk groups, so it is better that you dont become symptomatic if you are exposed to swine flu, and give it to the at risk groups, because they are, er, at risk….

personal choice?

Nurses arent given personal choice over their personal hygiene are they?

"No i am not washing my hands, it is my right to carry Cdiff everywhere"?

(not that making handwashing mandatatory seemed to have any impact last time my wife was in hospital)

Much as I am in favour of taking it and will be, I believe we should have the same basic rights to refuse a medical treatment like any other member of the public with mental capacity. It is not the same as washing your hands, that is a pathetic arguement.

because you deal with at risk groups, so it is better that you dont become symptomatic if you are exposed to swine flu, and give it to the at risk groups, because they are, er, at risk….

So you think that me being immune stops me being a carrier, wrong!

Nurses arent given personal choice over their personal hygiene are they?

Personal hygiene does not involve taking a drug.

Indeed, it is personal choice, not so for some states in the US.

I live in the UK.