- This topic has 69 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 11 years ago by BigButSlimmerBloke.
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NHS just coasting along
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piemonsterFull Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/08/nhs-hospitals-attacked-jeremy-hunt
Apparently!
He’s a politician so I see no reason to doubt what he says.
DracFull MemberHe’s right in one sense there’s too many pointless targets to meet that Trusts spend far too much time and money on them. Concentrate on patient care that’s what we’re there for.
kimbersFull MemberI suspect he will prescribe a dose of arnica to all NHS workers
http://www.woodlandherbs.co.uk/acatalog/homeopathy_remedy.html
althepalFull MemberRun an organisation that couldn’t be less like a business, like a business.
geoffjFull MemberRun an organisation that couldn’t be less like a business, like a business.
….but could probably benefit from a bit more customer focus in some areas.
deadlydarcyFree MemberIsn’t that a surprise? Jeremy Hunt (sic) who tried to hire (can’t remember if it actually happened) the former head of Circle as an advisor and who intervened to expediate Virgin Care’s takeover of hospitals in Surrey launches a fresh attack on the NHS.
Tory in attacking the NHS shocka. 😯
It was bad enough when this buffoon was given the Culture Brief, but it was bordering on criminal when he was given our treasured NHS to screw around with.
IHNFull Member“Coasting can kill. Not straight away, but over time as complacency sets in, organisations look inwards, standards drop and then suddenly, something gives,” Hunt will say in a speech to a conference organised by the Nuffield Trust health thinktank to debate the future of healthcare.
“The lesson of Mid Staffs is surely that we need to understand why they fail in the first place, which means tackling mediocrity and low expectations before they turn into failure and tragedy.”
Given the utter cluster-**** that led to the tragedies at Mid-Staffs, and let’s not kid ourselves that similar isn’t happening elsewhere, he’s right though isn’t he?
teamhurtmoreFree MemberDoesn’t seem to be too far from the mark in my family’s experience. But Hunt was trumped by Sir David Nicholson’s own testimony this week when he stated in order of priority the interests of the NHS were:
1. Having well-supported staff (whatever well-supported means) but no surprise whose interests came first
2. Systems, measurement, accountability (the irony?), processes – the bureaucracy second……and finally,….
3…oh yes, the sick people. At least the patients made it on to the list albeit in bronze medal position
althepalFull MemberI’d say being given increasingly difficult targets to meet while staff levels drop probably also contributed a fair bit to the current issues.. Plus the increasing levels of admin/levels of managers..
IHNFull MemberYeah, sorry, my mistake. As the Minister responsible, what he should of course be saying is “No, no, everythings absolutely hunk-dory, honest. No problems here, it’s all going swimmingly” 🙄
binnersFull MemberGiven the utter cluster-**** that led to the tragedies at Mid-Staffs, and let’s not kid ourselves that similar isn’t happening elsewhere, he’s right though isn’t he?
So giving the bloke responsible for said utter cluster-**** the top job at the NHS would seem like an utterly inspired idea
Jeremy Hunt is an absolute muppet. But also a complete free-market evangelist! He’s a hatchet man with one brief only, and its nowt to do with hospital standards. Its about privatising the NHS once and for all. If people will insist on being ill, and we’re then tasked with caring for the bastards, then at least our mates should be able to make some money out of it. Its only fair
WoodyFree MemberNice of Andy Burnham to remind us that this is nothing to do with Labour. It was all running smooth as silk a couple of years ago!
Bunch of lying, self-servings ****, the lot of them 👿
IHNFull MemberSo giving the bloke responsible for said utter cluster-**** the top job at the NHS would seem like an utterly inspired idea
Agreed, and it’s only a matter of time before he (rightly) goes.
I know Hunt is a twunt, and I know that the Tories plans for the NHS have been slightly unhinged (although I think ‘privatising the NHS once and for all’ is leftie hyperbole). However, I don’t disagree with what he’s saying in this instance.
DrPFull Member“Here’s some money. Not enough to currently manage your needs, or enough to future-plan in order to save money in the future.”
“With this sum of money (with which you’ll struggle to manage current minimal standards) I want you to excel above and beyond….”Oresum…
🙄
DrP
(it’s the equivalent of needing 4 new tyres on the car, having the budget for only 3, and being told to replace the spare too…)
binnersFull MemberAgreed, and it’s only a matter of time before he (rightly) goes.
Given his utterly shameless, almost delusional, self-justifications so far, I wouldn’t hold your breath.
(although I think ‘privatising the NHS once and for all’ is leftie hyperbole)
They tried to blatantly privatise it, laying it open to European competition law, so that everything has to be competitively tendered, or private healthcare firms could legally demand access. After opposition from pretty much everyone, they backed down. Only to then try and sneak the same clauses in through the back door.. They were rumbled though, so they’ve had to back down again
Given the free-market ideological zealotry of this lot, especially the likes of Hunt, do you seriously think they’re going shrug, say ‘oh well…. we tried”, then just leave it at that?
martinhutchFull MemberPlus the increasing levels of admin/levels of managers..
That’s the received wisdom, but in my view it’s completely fallacious. If anything, the NHS is under-managed, both in numbers and in terms of the quality of management. The proportion of ‘managers’ is around the 4% mark (much lower than in other organisations), and I believe that includes a lot of clinical managers who have dual roles – ie they’re still delivering patient care.
A massive organisation needs to be well-managed, so that clinical staff can devote more of their time to doing what they are supposed to be doing – looking after patients.
It’s true that clinical teams look up and see an endless stream of shite bureaucracy falling on them, then blame that on the managers handing it to them – but a lot of that crap comes directly from central government, and it is the lack of effective management which stops much of it being filtered out and dealt with separately.
I won’t argue with the idea that there are quite a few ‘management’ roles in the NHS which are completely redundant and unproductive. I did one for two years and it was an eye-opener.
jamj1974Full Membergeoffj – Member
Run an organisation that couldn’t be less like a business, like a business.
….but could probably benefit from a bit more customer focus in some areas.We are not customers – we are receiving treatment not services…
BermBanditFree MemberNice of Andy Burnham to remind us that this is nothing to do with Labour. It was all running smooth as silk a couple of years ago!
Short memory woody. Pre labour, the big issue was hospital waiting lists. Not somethign you’ve heard about for quite a while. There is a reason. What will happen here is typical tory hack and slash (cutting out imaginary waste). Which will at some point result in massive spending to restore any semblance of a health service that is fit for purpose…and then when they get back in ……. and so on ad infinitum
althepalFull MemberPatients, not customers!
Martin- agree with what you’re saying bud- meant more management/admin taking up staff’s time as opposed to the ole too many managers cliché.
Dr P speaks the truth!JunkyardFree MemberAn organisation the size of the NHS could always be improved on and helped tweaked.
I doubt anyone thinks the Tories hold the NHS dear in their hearts or him in particular
They will hive of the piss easy stuff to deliver to the private sector to show how much better it is than the NHS etc
Hopefully the Lib Dems will stop them
rattrapFree MemberPre labour, the big issue was hospital waiting lists. Not somethign you’ve heard about for quite a while. There is a reason.
Yes, there is – the hospitals focused on hitting the waiting list targets as they were told to, see Mid-Staffs for an example!
binnersFull MemberHopefully the Lib Dems will stop them
Well they’ve been doing really really well on that score so far. And not at all just nodded through everything like the spineless little poodles they are. God help us if its down to them!
JunkyardFree MemberBinners you are being harsh – they have stopped the more draconian aspects of shafting the poor and rewarding the rich
They temper how right wing they can be – I agree the negotiated weakly initially and should have demanded more than the vote change referendum tbh and are crap. However imagine what this lot would be doing if they could to benefit scroungers and competition in the NHS ete
It would be far worsescaredypantsFull MemberNHS would probably be OK if some **** didn’t try to reorganise it every ten years.
binnersFull MemberHowever imagine what this lot would be doing if they could to benefit scroungers and competition in the NHS etc
But that would require the mandate of a parliamentary majority, which Dave, rather amazingly given the opposition, failed to deliver. And something they should be reminding him of on a daily basis, but don’t seem to be doing. They’re complicit in the lot of it, as they seem to have spent most of their time, enjoying their ministerial cars, sucking their thumbs, and quietly wishing that their partners weren’t quite so nasty.
Certain Lib Dems seem to have gone native and completely embraced the Tory philosophy
IHNFull MemberI think this:
NHS would probably be OK if some **** didn’t try to reorganise it every ten years
Is the key point. And if only it were every ten years; it’s every parliament.
swiss01Free Memberjust in the interests of balance sky had harriet harman on the other night for her tuppence worth about what was wrong with the nhs. setting of targets really nothing to do with them and if it was they were on holiday at the time and we should be really, really sure that it wasn’t their responsibility even if it was them in power and making the changes. it’s like the pair of them were stamped out of the same mould, a pair of hunts if you will
martinhutchFull MemberNHS would probably be OK if some **** didn’t try to reorganise it every
tentwo years.FTFY
JunkyardFree MemberAwesome picture never noticed that likeness before
And something they should be reminding him of on a daily basis, but don’t seem to be doing. They’re complicit in the lot of it, as they seem to have spent most of their time, enjoying their ministerial cars, sucking their thumbs, and quietly wishing that their partners weren’t quite so nasty.
I dont disagree they had them over a barrell as dave could not get power without them and he negotiated very very weakly indeed.he should have driven a really hard bargain but he caved
that said they do limit how extremely right wing the Tories can be but YES they have done it baddly and turned a position of strength into one of weakness – they are crap but so much better than nothin gor a fully Tory govt
julianwilsonFree MemberMethinks Jeremy Hunt is deliberately exchanging the term “coasting” for “keeping head above water amidst meaningless and unhelpful targets and KPI’s”.
My ‘niche of a niche’ clinical speciality runs on small numbers (12 beds for all of Devon and Cornwall) so one or two patients in a year can and oiften do completely skew any meaningful statistics you might try and generate. We have very few reliably and quickly (ie <12 months post discharge) measurable clinical indicators/outcomes, this is common to the other 30 or 40 places that do the same thing as we do and frequently a topic of discussion in our national peer-review network.
We are therefore usually judged by our parent organisation (now a social enterprise trust) and our commissioners on some fairly irrelevant and therefore poorly named KPI’s (there is nothing ‘key’ about them whatsoever ffs!), aided currently by the fact that we have turned in a roaring profit (for we are paid in bed days by the four different health authorities whose patients we take) over the last 18 months which has been reinvested in other clinical areas. We also have outstanding hygeine/infection control ‘figures’, chiefly because we have the infection vectors and wounds/bugs/germs profile of a primary school not a surgical ward, so frankly it is pretty hard not to be spotless.
Yet somehow all this currently makes us a “good” service because no-one knows how else to judge us. 😕
geoffjFull Memberjamj1974 – Member
geoffj – Member
Run an organisation that couldn’t be less like a business, like a business.
….but could probably benefit from a bit more customer focus in some areas.
We are not customers – we are receiving treatment not services…*sigh
SanchoFree MemberWhat gets me in this is the language used by the Guardian in the article, its so inflammatory, it is simply designed to get people angry and turn against each other and clouds the debate before it starts
grumFree MemberCan you point out which bits you feel are inaccurate?
I would say it’s the speech that’s inflammatory, not the presentation of it. Does anyone seriously believe that Hunt would like to see the NHS being highly successful in its current form?
binnersFull MemberWhat gets me in this is the language used by the Guardian in the article, its so inflammatory, it is simply designed to get people angry and turn against each other and clouds the debate before it starts
In what way are people turning against each other? Opinion in the medical profession seems pretty much unanimously against this creeping privatisation, as does pretty much all public opinion, when surveyed
The divide and conquer tactic is slightly more the preserve of the good old Tory party, we all know and love, rather than the Guardian
IHNFull MemberDoes anyone seriously believe that Hunt would like to see the NHS being highly successful in its current form?
I don’t believe that he doesn’t want it to be successful in its current form, I think that he believes that it can’t be successful in its current form.
white101Full MemberMy company is a major suuplier of ‘products’ to the NHS yet we also tender to run services (and win many), last year we were asked by DoH to supply more services. This year will see the first contract awarded to start 2014 in Telehealth, ringing customers (aka patients) at home to do ‘visits’ without the need to come to the Dr’s surgery. Guess what? its an American idea and its worked over there for years (apparently) and its coming here soon despite the opposition by some groups within the NHS.
Think of the NHS as your high street all those friendly butchers and bakers you used to visit for your groceries until the supermarkets decided they would have a slice of that action cos they could make a profit and close down the little guy with Government blessing. The staff all leave the fruit and veg shop on the corner and got a job stacking shelves at the new shiny ever so slightly off the high street superstore along with the man from the bakers and the girl from the papershop.
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