after moving back to the local area we struggled to find any dentist taking on NHS patients. finally found one, but after a visit last week, both me and mrs ex-p thought she was a bit of a butcher 😀

my question is…….you go to the doctors on NHS, its free. dr finds something possibly wrong with you so you go to hospital, its free. check-ups, x-rays….free. you just pay for any medication through a prescription.
you go to the NHS dentist it costs you. why does it cost you if its supplied through NHS?

and ok, accepting that itll cost you to go to an NHS dentist, if theyre not taking on NHS patients, then does it actually cost much more to go private? if youre paying for visits/treatment anyway, whats the difference? just wondering whether its viable to choose a better private one if theyre not taking on NHS.

apologies if im being naive, jus wundrin……

ta

you go to the NHS dentist it costs you. why does it cost you if its supplied through NHS?

Same reason that prescriptions cost you money – not everything supplied by the NHS is free at the point of delivery. There’s no real rhyme or reason for it, arguably good dental care is more important than many of the things provided for free on the NHS.

A lot of this stuff is left over from the rather piecemeal way that the ragtag of professions and services were incorporated into the NHS in the first place. Bits like GPs being private contractors with a massive book of different fees they can bill the NHS for each activity they do.

A lot of the rules the NHS operates under don’t really stand up to scrutiny – eg you get free prescriptions for everything if you are on epilepsy medication, but not if you are on medication for most other chronic conditions.

But that’s the way it is.

ok thanks.

any idea how the different costs vary?

£20 check up with NHS dentist would cost what private?

£30 filling with NHS, how much private?

cheers

NHS dentistry has been a charged for service since about 1951, so not that long after the NHS started up. As a patient you pay approximately 80% of the cost (in theory). As far as I know, the charges were introduced as dentistry is an expensive service to provide and making the pt pay for it saves the government money. It’s “less essential” than treating heart attacks/ cancer so introducing charges was more politically palatable for dentistry than other areas of healthcare.

Dentistry IS an expensive service to provide, like all of healthcare, costs for staff and materials are increasing (brexit ain’t helping either) and the breadth of treatment that is expected to be available to a patient is ever increasing too. Sadly NHS funding has not really increased very much over the last 20 years.

As an NHS practice that leaves you with a model of providing a large quantity of cheap dentistry to a large number of patients as quickly as possible while trying to drive your overheads down to the lowest possible level. Those factors don’t usually encourage the highest quality of service.

Many practices move totally or at least partly outside the system to allow themselves to see a smaller number of patients with less time pressure and use more expensive materials and hopefully provide a higher quality service as a result. Exactly how much more you pay as a patient depends on the area you live in and the practice itself – the environment, the experience and ability of staff etc. Private practises should publish their fees and personal reccomendation from friends so a good way of selecting a practice.

biggest cartel going these dentists.. con from top to bottom.. local dentist goes from nhs to private so now i pay 20 odd quid a month.. until i go on holiday in that devon.. toothache.. rings EVERY dentist in 20 miles radius.. we re private and we only take our own patients.. ah i hav insurance.. not with us you dont cheerio..

dont get toothache.. dont pay the robbing twonks a penny..

Does vary, but significantly more. Introductory appts/check ups were 60 quid with my private dentist. Fillings can be hundreds, depending on what you need.

£20 check up with NHS dentist would cost what private?

£30 filling with NHS, how much private?

No idea about private, but you’ll not pay £30 for, well, anything at an NHS dentist. There are three treatment bands with a set fee for each, something like £20, £50 and £200 (ish). The first is basically your check-ups, scale & polish and all that jazz; the second is regular work like fillings, root canals, that sort of thing; the third is major jobs like bridging or getting a set of false teeth. You’ll only ever pay one of those amounts.

not sure on private costs other than it’s f’ing expensive, my wife had a crown and it cost thousands. But she is phobic, has a dentist she likes, and stays with them.

I’m (embarrassingly) on Denplan with my parents and sister – because we joined as a family donkey’s years ago and have never left. The cost for my parents to stay insured vs the cost for all four of us is so similar, not worth having my own policy.

But that might be worth considering…… OK you pay monthly hopefully for stuff you won’t need but avoids the massive bills that could come from a private bill.

Ah, it’s gone up a bit. Here.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1781.aspx?CategoryID=74

There are three NHS charge bands:
[list][*]Band 1: £20.60 covers an examination, diagnosis and advice. If necessary, it also includes X-rays, a scale and polish and planning for further treatment. [/*]
[*]Band 2: £56.30 covers all treatment covered by Band 1, plus additional treatment, such as fillings, root canal treatment and removing teeth (extractions). [/*]
[*]Band 3: £244.30 covers all treatment covered by Bands 1 and 2, plus more complex procedures, such as crowns, dentures and bridges.[/*][/list]

To answer your question, a check up is often around £40 but you would usually have more time with the dentist for the extra money.

An NHS filling is actually closer to £55. Private fillings are often charged by size. £60 to £110 maybe but it varies massively. Again you’re paying for the dentist to have more time to do the job and often use a more expensive, higher quality material.

The other thing to note is that NHS dental practices are all privately or corporately owned businesses that contract with the NHS to provide the service which is not the way GPs or hospitals were originally funded.

biggest cartel going these dentists.. con from top to bottom… dont pay the robbing twonks a penny..

And here lies the problem with modern life. Members of the public with very little understanding of the economics, history or reality of providing a service but happy to berate. Would probably vote for any party that promised to reduce public spending (and keep the money in their pocket where it rightfully belongs) and then moan about the standard of local services going down the pan too without appreciating the irony. Then a poster on the thread who clearly knows what they are talking about but its not cool to put value on expert opinion any more. Ignorance and negativity is king.

We get the NHS service we deserve. That’s not to say there have not been problems with GP/Dental contracts in the past but overall we have never valued our medical provision sufficiently as a nation to dig deep enough in our pockets to get what we think we are entitled to.

Standard practice IME is to go NHS (accept that it’s hard to find some places but never been an issue for us) for standard checks and then if something significant needs doing you can choose the cheap NHS option or pay more for a private upgrade e.g. better fillings. Should say this is my wife’s experience as I’ve never actually had to have any work done myself.

Again you’re paying for the dentist to have more time to do the job and often use a more expensive, higher quality material.

This is key. If you are short of money then use NHS, if you have spare money/care about your teeth more than buying a new bit for your bike then go private as the services offered are not the same.

If you are short of money then use NHS, if you have spare money/care about your teeth more than buying a new bit for your bike then go private as the services offered are not the same.

This. After having a tooth knocked out, the NHS fitted replacement (cap on the remnant made good) fell out as regular as clockwork. Went private in the end and the implant has been rock solid since around 2007

We get the NHS service we deserve. That’s not to say there have not been problems with GP/Dental contracts in the past but overall we have never valued our medical provision sufficiently as a nation to dig deep enough in our pockets to get what we think we are entitled to.

+1

why does it cost you if its supplied through NHS?

Same reason I have to pay for specs (though there is a laughable NHS contribution for “complex prescriptions”).

Pretty much impossible to find an NHS dentist here. I pay about £100 for a check up and clean. Luckily my dental health is very good, very rarely need work doing.

Just for balance Ulysse I had a cap that fell out regular as clockwork that was carried out privately by a dentist I rated (he sorted the long-term abscess caused by a very poor NHS root filling). The private cap cost the thick end of £400 (edit for cost).
Plus comparing caps with implants a little disingenuous, no? The engineering in an implant is quite different to a cap.

I use centre for dentistry which is in my local Sainsburys as I couldn’t find a local NHS dentist
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Think it’s 100 for a year for two check ups and two cleans and a discount off any other treatment.I have had a root canal and crown which was the most expensive thing they do compared to the NHS but can’t fault them.I have more xrays with them than probably the last ten years of NHS, they seem really good. I think they make their money on cosmetic stuff so the routine stuff is fairly reasonably priced I think for what feels like much better service.

I think my point was, if at the time I’d been told a cap could fall out up to three times a year and other options would have been more suitable, even at xyz expense, I’d have opted for the more complex treatment earlier.

My NHS dentist is bloody great!

I gave up with NHS dentists a while back. I always got the impression that they were just looking for an excuse to kick you off the NHS register and imposed all sorts of silly rules like, if you re-arrange your appointment 3 times, your out, if you miss 2 appointments you’re out. Been going PAYG for a while now and it’s not that much more expensive on an annual basis assuming your teeth are in reasonable nick and you don’t need any specific treatments and you just get a much better service all round. Annual check up costs are not that much more expensive, a visit to the hygienist is the same price as the NHS don’t subsidise that, and the NHS didn’t do white fillings so no more expensive to replace my silver fillings with white ones as and when needed.

Obviously if you need anything major like root canal work or anything else then it is more expensive under PAYG, but then under NHS you just get the very basics and if you want anything more than that then you pay under Private terms.

I had the local NHS dentist in Rothwell (on Butcher Lane…the clue should be in the address). They operate on such tight timescales that the materials and time they take to do a job just isn’t the same as private. For the last four years I have used a private local dentist and the difference is stark. The quality of the work done and the finish has been so much better, but more importantly repairs that had failed after less than a year with the NHS dentist have held up for 3 years and counting with the private dentist. It’s not cheap, but you only have one set of teeth.

So was the “cap” guy, Wallop, in other treatments , but I think he was happy to take the NHS coin 3 times a year rather then offer the correct for me course of action.

Had the option of NHS or private at the dentist I signed up to. Difference they said was in the appointment availability and treatment options. Prices for basics weren’t that much different, though going private they try to get you on a hygienist plan which costs a fair bit per visit (though I do actually feel it’s worth it even if I’m normally a cynic with these things. Pay attention to cleaning and regular visits has resulted in very little work to be done by the dentist).

Went private myself and one of the reasons is because I can avoid mercury fillings. Though I understand white fillings can be had on the NHS but I believe they’re offered only as a necessity. Private and they’re instantly available.

Not that I get additional fillings, but had a couple from my youth that needed replacing (god knows what damage the mercury content had done as one was leaking).

As for expensive stuff, if your teeth are a mess and will need a lot of work over your life time, then I’d go with an insurance plan. If they’re in good condition, save the money.

Went private myself and one of the reasons is because I can avoid mercury fillings. Though I understand white fillings can be had on the NHS but I believe they’re offered only as a necessity. Private and they’re instantly available.

You get white fillings on the NHS if it’s a visible area of the tooth. According to my dentist, the amalgam ones are preferable in most cases as they’re a lot harder-wearing than the white ones.

Not that I get additional fillings, but had a couple from my youth that needed replacing (god knows what damage the mercury content had done as one

was leaking).

None whatsoever. The mercury is part of a compound, it’s inert. Which makes sense if you think about it, if it was a health risk you’d see a lot of very poorly dentists. You’ll have more mercury in your system from eating fish than from a mouthful of fillings.

Leaking what, exactly?

(god knows what damage the mercury content had done as one was leaking).

😀

Leaking is reference to the filling no longer sealing the cavity so moisture and bacteria is getting into the cavity. This is a bad thing. Leaking is in no way referencing the mercury!

As cougar says above amalgam is still a better filling material for a long term solution and it’s only really vanity that means white fillings composites are used instead. I went against family (retired dentist) advice and had a white filling on a molar and regretted a few years later. Amalgam for me from now on (fingers crossed not to be needed).

Cougar – something for you to chew on. 😉

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Mercury_-_Toxicity_of_Dental_Amalgam_-_Why_you_should_have_your_dental_amalgams_removed

https://www.bda.org/dentists/policy-campaigns/public-health-science/fact-files/Documents/amalgam_fact_file.pdf

Cougar – Moderator 
According to my dentist, the amalgam ones are preferable in most cases as they’re a lot harder-wearing than the white ones.

It’s definitely true white are not as durable and that was pointed out to me. My dentist did mention some patients have concerns about mercury but stated the official line that it’s considered safe and left it to me to decide, but certainly wasn’t recommending either amalgam or white in preference, just presented the pros and cons of each.

None whatsoever. The mercury is part of a compound, it’s inert. Which makes sense if you think about it, if it was a health risk you’d see a lot of very poorly dentists. You’ll have more mercury in your system from eating fish than from a mouthful of fillings.

Mercury is relatively inert in itself, but doesn’t stop it being highly toxic as a heavy metal the body is intolerant to. It’s well established that amalgam fillings release mercury vapour over the lifetime they are in the mouth (FDA amongst others acknowledge this), though claims are the levels are safe. Those claims are of course from government backed medical authorities, who are not about to admit that the vast majority of the population has anything dangerous in their mouths.

Of course there’s little conclusive evidence, but long term studies are lacking. Current line is there is little or no evidence of effects, despite many concerns. Terry Pratchett even believed his Alzheimer’s came from mercury from fillings https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/feb/15/mercury-fillings-alzheimers

But then he was a fantasy author not a dentist 😉

Leaking what, exactly?

Probably the wrong dental term, but cracking and disintegrating fillings in my case and probable ingestion of the metal. Again, it’s claimed to be below legal limits, but it’s a concern.

Anyway, truth or not, it’s one less risk. My old ones were falling apart and falling out, so I’d much rather the white as replacement.

Fish – true. I do like fish though. Apparently you just need to steer clear of the ones at the top of the food chain 😀

So why is the use of mercury being phased out in the UK? As I understand it many countries stopped using it years ago.

MY NHS dentist was a bit rubbish. I got some bad advice and some bad work. I ended up going private. Prices are here

https://www.bupa.co.uk/dental/find-dental-centre/newcastle-upon-tyne-dental-centre

corrective work for me (replacing fillings) added up to “you could buy a bike for that” but I am now trouble free for years. If you’ve had dental problems then you’ll appreciate how valuable this is.

In the past I’ve had some brilliant NHS dentists. It isn’t the NHS/Private choice that makes one better than the other. Good and bad dentists do both types of work.

A lot of this stuff is left over from the rather piecemeal way that the ragtag of professions and services were incorporated into the NHS in the first place.

I think it’s more that it’s resulted from the way governments have tried to reduce the cost. 30-40 years ago NHS dentistry was the norm. I joined a local NHS practice when I moved to my current area in 1986 but a few years later they said it wasn’t possible to provide the kind of service to patients that they were comfortable with for the amount the NHS was paying them, and they went 100% private. I have had good service from them since, fortunately I could just about afford it, but it’s not how the NHS was supposed to work.

So why is the use of mercury being phased out in the UK? As I understand it many countries stopped using it years ago.

As I understand it, the recent decision to phase out the use of amalgam in the EU is based on reducing the amount of mercury released into the environment when people are buried / cremated and not to do with a proven risk to the living. That’s also the reason that it was banned in Scandinavia some years ago.

And I quote

“The European Parliament agreed on 14 March 2017 to the final version of its Regulation on Mercury. The Regulation is the EU’s instrument to ratify the Minamata Treaty of 2013.

The Minamata Treaty is a global environmental treaty aimed at reducing the release of mercury into the environment. The EU’s Mercury Regulation has the same aim for the territory of the European Union. Both documents prescribe a phase-down of the use of dental amalgam for environmental reasons.”

And…..

“It is important to note that the EU Regulation on Mercury is an environmental regulation, not a health regulation. The EU cannot make laws that directly change the way health systems in member states are arranged. The EU’s Scientific Committee is clear that:

“Current evidence does not preclude the use of amalgam in dental restorative treatment in the general population. Dental restorative therapy during pregnancy, as for any other therapeutic treatment, should be limited as much as possible in order to reduce the exposure of the foetus. The choice of material should be based on patient characteristics such as primary or permanent teeth, pregnancy, the already existent number of dental amalgam fillings, presence of allergies to mercury or other components of the restorative materials, and presence of decreased renal clearance.”

FWIW, there are people who believe that the resins used in white fillings are carcinogenic so you pay your money……..as they say.

Best thing to do is brush and floss (or clean between the teeth with small brushes) regularly and efficiently and limit the number of times a day you eat stuff with (any kind of) sugar in. Then you won’t need as many fillings

sadexpunk – Member
ok thanks.

any idea how the different costs vary?

£20 check up with NHS dentist would cost what private?

£30 filling with NHS, how much private?

cheers

I am on private so every six months I visit my dentist to pay £80 for general cleaning and checkup. My guess is £40 each as starting point.

For filling the starting point is I think around £50. I had a crack tooth and my dentist gave me a softer filling which I think I paid £57 for. Extraction is around £80 …

I am happy with my current dentist.

So why is the use of mercury being phased out in the UK? As I understand it many countries stopped using it years ago.

As Ceepers said, but also because there are better things available nowadays. But that doesn’t automatically mean that what existed before is ‘dangerous’ and must be replaced / avoided at all costs.

And what does better mean; as noted that isn’t necessarily an easy equation, the resins used have their own hazards (certainly prior to curing) and if they don’t last as long and you therefore eventually need more treatments / suffer more decay because of fillings breaking up what is the comparative exposure of multiple treatments vs a single one of amalgam, etc.

Cougar – Moderator
…The mercury is part of a compound, it’s inert. Which makes sense if you think about it, if it was a health risk you’d see a lot of very poorly dentists. You’ll have more mercury in your system from eating fish than from a mouthful of fillings.

The risk was more to the dentist because of handling mercury in its raw state with bare hands.

My uncle was a dentist and he used to joke how you could spot a dental convention at tea time -the rattling of the tea cups as all their hands shook. He reckoned it was the effect of the mercury on their nervous systems.

They also had a short life expectancy, around 55 if I recall right. There was also a high suicide rate. (He lived to 96, but all of his contemporaries were dead long since.)

Presumably it’s much safer now.

If you Google Alison Adams, a dentist who accidentally touched some mercury and became very ill. My own dentist considerably improved his health by having (mercury) amalgams removed.

It’s easy to have a heavy metal toxicity test done if you’re concerned about your mercury level. A provoking agent called DMSA is used which results in smelly wee.

The psychiatrist and psychopharmacologist Dr David Healy has a really good blog with mercury mentioned here:

https://davidhealy.org/pharmacosis-the-day-the-music-died/

Go Figure: The Silver Lining Clouds the View

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873108

Not disputing there are better things nowadays but nothing is without potential hazard.

My future work (if any) will be resin. Will I be replacing all my amalgams? Probably not.

cinnamon_girl – Member
If you Google Alison Adams, a dentist who accidentally touched some mercury and became very ill. My own dentist considerably improved his health by having (mercury) amalgams removed…

When I was a kid, I spent many a happy hour playing with mercury. 🙂