Newsnight - special edition on the summer riots. Shocking.

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Newsnight - special edition on the summer riots. Shocking.

77 posts & 32 voices | Started 5 months ago by brooess | Latest reply from CharlieMungus

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brooess - Member

I know they're likely to show the interviews that make the 'best' story but the rationale being given by some of the participants is so warped it's scary...

The girl who wants to be a primary school teacher who thinks it's great there's one less police car cos they've just burnt one... does she really not understand the character and morals you need to be let loose on our kids...

Or the lad - pretty articulate and intelligent-sounding saying he looted and burnt to get back at the fact he had his benefits taken away, and wanted to cost the country more than it's taken from him.
That's proper scary that he appears to believe that to be justified behaviour...

Is there really no ability to reflect on personal responsibility and working hard to get the things you want - in one of the richest and most equal countries in the world. Or is that actually the problem... have we become a bunch of rich kids (relative to the rest of the world that is....)

Posted 5 months ago #
iDave - Member

EDIT - CBA

Posted 5 months ago #
maccruiskeen - Member

in one of the richest and most equal countries in the world

one of the richest - yes

and most equal countries - no, very far from it

Posted 5 months ago #
mrblobby - Member

Doesn't surprise me. Mrs Blobby often deals with people on benefits as part of her job and they're always on about when they "get paid", as if they have somehow earnt it.

Posted 5 months ago #
cheese@4p - Member

Hang on, don't expect rioting, looting idiots to come up with perfectly rational justifications. What do you expect?

Posted 5 months ago #
Coyote - Member

What iDave said. I'd started a stream of conciousness but thought better of it.

Posted 5 months ago #
don simon - Member

on about when they "get paid", as if they have somehow earnt it.

Maybe they have, just not in a way that you can see. I've worked, I've paid in and now I have earned right to withdraw it.

Posted 5 months ago #
CharlieMungus - Member

Doesn't surprise me. Mrs Blobby often deals with people on benefits as part of her job and they're always on about when they "get paid", as if they have somehow earnt it.

'Paid' doesn't imply earned does it. Hopefully mrs blobbybdoen't have such a dismissive attitude if she works with people in receipt of benefits

Posted 5 months ago #
mrblobby - Member

Don Simon, yes indeed some have... but these ones definitely haven't.

CM, mrs blobby is much better at her job than I would ever be!

Posted 5 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

Is there really no ability to reflect on personal responsibility and working hard to get the things you want

Youth unemployment breaks 1m mark

Just saying like.

Posted 5 months ago #
don simon - Member

I can see how easy it is to get frustrated with the system after seeing the way that us scroungers are treated by some of the DWP staff, some are quite humane, others not. i also understand that the staff have to be quite thick skinned too, it's a saddening environment.

Posted 5 months ago #
brooess - Member

and most equal countries - no, very far from it

I think this is part of the issue. Look at the Gini coefficient tables. UK IS one of the most equal countries in the world. Not equal per se, but ONE of the MOST...

No-one seems to realise this...

Global Gini Coefficient ranking

Posted 5 months ago #
mudshark - Member

What's the solution? Many of the better off seem to be getting fed up with supporting a growing number of people with low, or no, earnt income. The poorer people want a better life but how can that happen? That bloke said Capitalism will destroy itself.

Posted 5 months ago #
don simon - Member

Will?

Posted 5 months ago #
deviant - Member

"get paid"....awful yank expression imported from the godawful rap scene over there....applied to any activity (legitimate or otherwise) that garners money....drug dealing, benefits etc etc.

Had to chuckle at the 'repressed' youths that cut their holiday short by 9 days to return to the UK and join in the riots....wow, nothing like being so held down by 'the man' that you have to cut your hols short to come home and riot!

The kids being spoken to are trotting out the same lines we've heard for decades....police oppression, anti-government etc ....same shit, different generation....why give air time to these bellends?

I've said it before and i'll say it again, when these retards talk like a bad impression of Ali-G nobody in their right mind is going to give them a job....it sounds particularly bad when the jamaican patois being spouted at you is coming from a white person....how does that work then?....or when the black lad who is a 3rd or 4th generation West Indies immigrant and has never left these shores speaks with more of a caribbean accent than his dear old granny who was born in St Lucia!....its no wonder society shuns these cretins.

Posted 5 months ago #
teamhurtmore - Member

...shockingly predictable. Poor quality debate TBH though. Although glad that someone raised the issue of the "real victims".

Newsnight really seems to be struggling these days. Too much dumbing down and headline seeking

Posted 5 months ago #
don simon - Member

The kids being spoken to are trotting out the same lines we've heard for decades....police oppression, anti-government etc ....same shit, different generation....why give air time to these bellends?

Because being selective on which bellends can have their say and those who can't wouldn't be fair. Mind you I could always use "report post", couldn't I?

Posted 5 months ago #
CharlieMungus - Member

I've said it before and i'll say it again, when these retards talk like a bad impression of Ali-G nobody in their right mind is going to give them a job....it sounds particularly bad when the jamaican patois being spouted at you is coming from a white person....how does that work then?....or when the black lad who is a 3rd or 4th generation West Indies immigrant and has never left these shores speaks with more of a caribbean accent than his dear old granny who was born in St Lucia!....its no wonder society shuns these cretins.

Exactly! How can they expect to get decent paid work and make a contribution if they are going to go around acting black? They should buckle down and start acting white if they want to get on

Posted 5 months ago #
deviant - Member

CharlieMungus....you'll find that blacks in the US that talk in hip-hop speak and act 'gangsta' also have a hard time getting work....its not about the colour of the skin, its about not acting and looking like a prick....there are plenty of blacks in this country and the US who dont feel the need to conform to negative racial stereotypes and funnily enough they seem to get on with their lives fine....its the few who want to act like they're living in an MTV video and still get taken seriously that have a hard time of it.

Posted 5 months ago #
brooess - Member

Deviant. Are you David Sharkey? I remember he got into a whole lot of hot water when he said something similar at the time....

You're right about plenty of black people not behaving that way - and by acting just as everyone else does, they get treated just like everyone else. Anyone living in London sees that on a daily basis

Posted 5 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

I think this is part of the issue. Look at the Gini coefficient tables. UK IS one of the most equal countries in the world. Not equal per se, but ONE of the MOST...

No-one seems to realise this...

Global Gini Coefficient ranking

Yes of course, they should count themselves lucky that they don't live in Malawi.

Does that rule apply to bankers too ? .......... I'm guessing not.

Income inequality growing faster in UK than any other rich country, says OECD

"Top 10% have incomes 12 times greater than bottom 10%, up from eight times greater in 1985"

Posted 5 months ago #
CharlieMungus - Member

CharlieMungus....you'll find that blacks in the US that talk in hip-hop speak and act 'gangsta' also have a hard time getting work....its not about the colour of the skin, its about not acting and looking like a prick..

So adopting black identity is acting like a prick?

..there are plenty of blacks in this country and the US who dont feel the need to conform to negative racial stereotypes and funnily enough they seem to get on with their lives fine....its the few who want to act like they're living in an MTV video but get taken seriously that have a hard time of it.

But who has the negative stereotype? Because you view it negatively other peoplenhave to change?

Oh society has the ngative view? Let's just revisit who needs the education here,

Posted 5 months ago #
deviant - Member

brooess....i dont think i'm saying anything too controversial.

When the 'yoof' of today speak and it sounds like Ali-G it just makes them sound thick even if they arent....if the accent they are using has caribbean overtones when they have never been to those islands then it just becomes comical....and (black or white) kids speaking like this want to be taken seriously?

Someone from Jamaica speaks with a Jamaican accent - fine and normal.

Someone from Guildford speaks with a Jamaican accent - cock.

I hope that clears things up for some people....lets not being race into it, its about looking like a penis or not and a lot of these kids dont help themselves.

Posted 5 months ago #
CharlieMungus - Member

Trouble is some folks don't realise that what they say and how they say it makes them look like a cock to others who don't buy into the same value system as them

Posted 5 months ago #
don simon - Member

Someone from Guildford speaks with a Jamaican accent - cock.

Wow.

I hope that clears things up for some people...

Yes it does, cock.

Posted 5 months ago #
CharlieMungus - Member

Someone from Guildford speaks with a Trinidadian accent?

Posted 5 months ago #
thegreatape - Member

Someone from Guildford speaks with a Jamaican accent - cock

Is it specifically Guildford, or would this include anyone from Surrey who speaks with a Jamaican accent?

Posted 5 months ago #
NZCol - Member

Is it not more about the fundamental lack of responsibility these rioters feel for having to participate in the social fabric of the country ? Sorry to sound all Radio4 on you there but to me it's nothing to do with race, religion or which part of Surrey you live in - it's about the fact that many of the rioters have no concept that in life you have no 'rights' and fundamentally in order to participate in society you have to choose to do so and play under some rules. That's what gets on my goat - if I want to work hard and do well that is my choice, if I don;t that is also my choice but I should not then epxect to have 'the right' to have the same 'stuff' as the person that has worked hard for it. But the attitude is that they do. And lets be clear - it's mainly about 'stuff' and not about where they want to be in life or their aspirations - they just want a nice fckn TV.

I'm getting annoyed now.

Posted 5 months ago #
emanuel - Member

“If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves.”
Howard Zinn

Posted 5 months ago #
emanuel - Member

Doing a good job of it too.
emanuel.

Posted 5 months ago #
Northwind - Member

Thing is... Lots of people are finding they can't participate in society the way this thread would like them to. 22% of UK youth are unemployed, that's a terrible situation, and it's very geographically unbalanced too. Being young and employed isn't some lifestyle choice, for many (most? No idea). Course, that doesn't excuse or justify theft and rioting but the idea that all they have to do is work hard to get what they want is a fairytale.

Posted 5 months ago #
NZCol - Member

So, indulge me, are there no jobs for that 22% or just no jobs they want to do ? Serious question.

I've been working on some outdoors stuff with 'troubled youths' and quite frankly most of them want a job that pays loads for no real effort - their words not mine.

all they have to do is work hard to get what they want is a fairytale

Indeed, always has been however applying yourself and being a responsible citizen will put you some way down the path further than someone putting a brick through a window to steal a TV.

Posted 5 months ago #
emanuel - Member

how kafkaesque would watching a doc on looting,on a looted tv, be?
the mind boggles.

but on a serious note,if society feeds them the success myth,if they'll tell you anything to sell you anything.if there aren't any rolemodels,local or national.If the people that do good,and there are plenty,aren't really rewarded for it,nor are they given much attention.
If all that is successful is good.howeverwhichway you get there.
If all that is profitable is good,if profit is good.If money is good.if power,money are all good.

Pretty hard growing up,much harder when you have to do it by yourself amidst a barrage of misinformation,lies and propaganda.

I read the jimmy reid acceptance speech the other day.How many youths have access to advice like that?
I don't mean the abstract access,it's on the net.

I mean the real access,that's pretty hard.
Anyway,alienation pretty well sums this up as well.

besides,look at the wikip page that lists riots,hardly a new thing.

it's the social contract breaking down.
Too easy to (just) blame the ones that get caught up in it.For them it already has.

I mean,poor bastards,they get told they need to prove themselves by acquiring/getting/procuring all that is good,yet,mostly,are excluded from the process.
hence the shortcut.semantically they're not far off.morally,that's another story.
but the media preaching morals?politicians preaching morals?
come on.

Ladro piccolo non ti far beccare,che il ladro grosso ti fa impiccare.

nice little proverb that.
however,they were pretty stupid to get caught up in it.

Posted 5 months ago #
duckman - Member

CharlieMungus - Member
Trouble is some folks don't realise that what they say and how they say it makes them look like a cock to others who don't buy into the same value system as them

POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

My Kenyan workmate pisses himself laughing at pupils up here trying to talk "gangsta" to him.By your above,is he imposing a negative stereotype on them? (While at the same time being disrespectful of the value system they are choosing to adopt.) Or does it make them little wannabies?

Thank God we have you to fight injustice on the internet for us.

Posted 5 months ago #
wl - Member

Maybe grabbing a pair of trainers through a broken shop window isn't so far removed from consistently fiddling one's books to claim for a non-existant mortgage. In terms of morality, greed, integrity and respect for the the public, many politicians have hardly set a great example recently. To some extent, codes of conduct are everyone's responsibility.

Posted 5 months ago #