After much research and trying on of various options, my good lady bought a Paramo Mirada jacket. First time out it leaked like a sieve and had to be sent back to Paramo to be proofed properly. Second time out today and the fabric is falling apart under the rucksack hip belt strap.

So that’s obviously going back.

My 6 year old Paramo Velez is still brilliant, so perhaps QC isn’t quite what it was 😕

What’s the best alternative for £200ish? She’s tried a membrane (paclite) and found it a bit boil-in-the-bag, so breathability is really important. She did like the fact the Paramo jacket had some insulation vs the paclite.

I was angling towards an insulated Neoshell or event jacket, or maybe a Vapour rise inner with waterproof outer…

Buffalo?

I’ve always got on well with Berghaus waterproofs.

The lightweight paramo outer is fairly fragile, but the damage is usually cosmetic only.

Neoshell is much more breathable that paclite, and mine has been pretty tough. It’s not usually a great idea to buy an insulated shell, unless you have a very specific cold weather activity in mind. Normal shell with a separate fleece (or whatever) underneath is much more flexible, and you will have much more choice.

I think the Andina is basically the Mirada but with the tougher outer fabric. It’s still way lighter than my old Velez because the updated liner is thinner and the mesh liner used where it’s doubled up is lighter. Big pit zips to counter the insulation.

he lightweight paramo outer is fairly fragile, but the damage is usually cosmetic only

Yes, I understand it’s the ‘fur’ (pump) layer underneath that does most of the work but the jacket looks awful after two uses so cosmetic or not it’s a bit annoying. Dread to think what it’ll look like in six months so it’s going back, no two ways about it!

think the Andina is basically the Mirada but with the tougher outer fabric

Yes we looked at the Andina but chose the Mirada as it’s lighter. We don’t go rock climbing and do very little scrambling so I figured the Mirada would be sturdy enough.

Neoshell currently looking favourite, with VR lite underneath.

VR lite underneath a Neoshell (both great products independently) isn’t necessarily a great pairing, depending on how you plan to use it. Breathability will be poor, compared to a std fleece under a Neoshell. If you run cold, this may not be too much of an issue. If you will be wearing the VR on its own most of time, and just putting the Neoshell on when it is bucketing down, that makes much more sense. I’d also choose this option over a single insulated jacket, unless you are sure you want the warmth 99% of the time.

VR plus Neoshell probably isn’t going to happen for £200, unless you find them discounted.

Interesting – why do you say that angeldust? Is it because the moisture won’t be a vapour when it hits the neoshell fabric?

I wear a VR top under a GTX Pro shell and never had any problems breathability wise. My mid layer always has a pertex (or similar) shell e.g. Rab Vapour Rise or Arcteryx Atom so I can wear it without the waterproof and still be wind proof. I generally only put the GTX on when it’s really raining though, so most of the time just wear the mid layer over a thermal.

Just checked some photos from last trip to Lakes, spent a couple of days in Rab Vapour Rise + GTX Shell and don’t recall any problems……

Because you have 2 wind proof ‘protective layers’ to breathe through (in this case pertex equilibrium, and the Neoshell).

It’s seems that neoshell is far and away the most breathable of the conventional membrane waterproofs, so that’s the way I’d go if not Paramo. I’ve taken a leftfield approach for MTBing with one of those Paramo windproof + fleece combos – the ‘Enduro’ in my case (that word gets bloody everywhere!) Vents galore and you can wear either one on its own (fleece is relatively wind resistant and both are water resistant) or together for full waterproofing. Feel bombproof, super breathable. Managed to avoid hideous weather so far so yet to be properly tested.

I wear a VR top under a GTX Pro shell and never had any problems breathability wise. My mid layer always has a pertex (or similar) shell e.g. Rab Vapour Rise or Arcteryx Atom so I can wear it without the waterproof and still be wind proof. I generally only put the GTX on when it’s really raining though, so most of the time just wear the mid layer over a thermal

If you ‘only really put the GTX on when it’s really raining’, I’m not really sure what your point is? You are using the combination in exactly the way I suggested.

Best way to sum it up really is to say that breathability, and what works for an individual, is a very personal thing. Breathability through 2 windproof layers (VR + hardshell) is always going to be compromised compared to a fleece + hardshell. As someone who runs hot, this bothers me. I have numerous weight VR jackets, which I think are one of the best softshells available, but I don’t particularly like wearing a hardshell (even Neoshell) over the top. It just doesn’t work that well (so that configuration is usually only used for short periods, being caught out by heavy rain etc). If it’s going to rain heavily all day (and it’s cold enough) I’d much rather be in a fleece+hardshell, or even better, Paramo.

Event fabric is very hard wearing and waterproof. Breathability is a moot point for any fabric with strenuous activity involved so get something with pit zips and a vented back.

I’m not really sure what your point is?

Last time I was in the Lakes, spent a couple of days with GTX on most of the day as it was so windy, the VR was too cold – no breathability problems.

But as you say, each to their own.

Personally I don’t like the thicker VR tops, way too heavy for the insulation factor. I much prefer the Arcteryx Atom series when it’s a bit colder. Incredibly light and packable for the insulation.

Event fabric is very hard wearing and waterproof.

Do you mean the actual waterproof membrane? Event is actually renowned for being relatively difficult to look after if you want to keep performance optimum. If you mean ‘hard wearing’ in terms of tear strength/robustness, then it is entirely dependent on the chosen face fabric, which has nothing to do with the Event membrane.

Breathability is a moot point for any fabric with strenuous activity involved so get something with pit zips and a vented back.

Only true to an extent. If I’m walking or biking in the rain and have a jacket on (with similar vents), like for like I will be much more comfortable (i.e. less sweaty) wearing Neoshell than paclite. I agree, if you are working hard enough you will be hot and sweaty in any waterproof jacket, but the breathability does make a difference in my experience.

Don’t think there’s many times an insulated shell jacket would work for riding in the UK, it would simply be too warm – at -10c in the arctic I found Polartec Alpha with a windproof shell too warm. I would go for a decent softshell over hardshell for most UK conditions